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And that's why New Zealand Warriors are looking to put Locke back at Fullback and pitch Sam Tomkins at Stand Off with Johnson in the halves.nathan_rugby wrote:I think the prime example of how the role of the fullback has changed and developed is that Sam Tomkins is regarded by many as an out and out fullback, not a stand off playing fullback.
Watching Sam adapt into that role at Wigan and through what I have seen at NZW, in my opinion he is by no stretch a stand off.
Kittwazzer wrote:Can I assume this thread is now irreparably derailed?
Please don;t make assumptions about me or my rugby knowledge or watching habitscpwigan wrote:BM, forget wikipedia etc etc. Seeing and listening to those games when Ella did play FB was and is far more enlightening. However, he was rarely needed in that position because the other innovative tactic of interchanging Taylor and Sterling was far more valuable at the time. Steve Ella similarly was a fantastic stand off (just ask Wigan fansbutt monkey wrote:You mention Steve Ella as "an example" of the future positional changes we now see, yet how many times exactly (barring injury) did Paul Taylor get replaced by Steve Ella? Even the great Jack Gibson knew were to play Ella and it was not full back in precedence over Taylor!cpwigan wrote:I used Steve Ella as an example of how the FB role was already slowly evolving. Phil Blake was another early example of a half back moving to FB. IIRC, Billy Slater was originally a half back as a junior.
Even the Aussies have him down as a utility playerPhil Blake was very similar to Ella, but his main position in his early career was as a half back, but he too was often seen for his utility value and played most of his time in the centres. Only when he joined the Auckland Warriors did he play full back and by then he was at the end of his playing time.ELLA, Steve 1960-07-28 Fullback, Wing, Centre, Five-Eighth, Halfback, Bench played 156 Tries 94 Goals 104 FG 6 552
Both players are not good examples of players moving early in their careers to fulfil the games changing tactics
Even the match he flew in from Manchester airport and later that day get a debut try against the Saints. Don't try and belittle me or who or what I have seen play - you might even be surprised! Calm down and think before typing. I could not care less what your knowledge or watching habits are. However, if you want to impress overs then do so with the facts. For a big Souths fan you of course know that Brian Battesse never played for the Rabbitohs. He played for the Bulldogs! I too enjoyed watching the Rabbitohs as they were wild and spirited. One of my favourites at that time was Tony Rampling.That doesn't mean Rads was effort over talent. It's an indictment of the players with talent who coasted.cpwigan wrote:Far from it Dave. Forget what you think you know and ask or read what the pros tell you. An easy one is Danny Buderous autobiography where he recalls umpteen players with far more talent, genuine natural talents and they hardly made a first grade appearance.
Likewise Rads will tell you umpteen players he played with had far more talent but never achieved a fraction of what he did.
Well of course every player makes mistakes so what's your point?People look at things through Cherry misted glasses. I can find examples; several where Rads spilled kicks or where Rads got beat by oncoming players. The most famous being Cunningham at KR. Rads made mistakes as does every player but of course we remember the ones here and now and go all gooey eyes in nostalgia about the past. What next? Nick Kiss could play hooker today?
It's not the slightest bit odd that a good attitude makes a good pro player and why do you imply I think otherwise? What I am saying is Rads had both the right attitude and had talent.Rads was a great player in his time but his attitude was his strength. Oddly Dave you will find attitude makes successful pro players and those lacking it but with equal or more talent never make it!
I doubt I did but even if I did, I am not sure of what the relevance of that call is. It's not exactly unheard of that a back who once played 6 or as a centre to move to 13 if they have the physical attributes to match as they get older. That is not the same as taking a young half back and turning him into a 1 at the start of his 1st team career.The game evolves and Rads would not be a FB today. I daresay you screamed blue murder that Ellery Hanley was not a LF when Lowe put him there too.
And of course you acknowledge that full backs need greater skills to handle them as a specialist like Bowen possesses. Which is one of my main points that being a modern full back doesn't abdicate you of fielding the bombs along with other skills you need to have. In fact if the bombs are harder to take it suggests a specialist rather than any old half back plays there.BTW The Bowen we watch is nowhere near as good as he was at his peak for Cowboys but he is still an excellent player and he makes mistakes. Oddly, the worlds best FB Billy Slater makes some major cock ups.
Of course you also acknowledge that kicking techniques re bombs have improved over time.
I thought you might catch my attempt to throw you - better knowledge than I thought (or did you google it to check? )cpwigan wrote:
More importantly consider the bigger picture before you try to make a point. Steve Ella was an exceptional player and a fantastic FB but he rarely played there because for 99.9% ogf the time it suited Jack gibson to play him elsewhere. Why? Not because he could not play FB but because of Peter Sterling!! Sterlo was too valuable to let opposing teasms target him in the defensive line so Jack promoted Taylor to first grade and when the opposition had the ball, Sterlo went to FB to conserve energy / rest whilst Taylor like a wild snapping terrier dog hacked down opposing juggernaught forwards around the ankles. I think at one stage Taylor held the tackle count record for Parra in a match. Remember, THE BIGGER PICTURE Is WHAT IS BEST FOR THE TEAM!
Now stop spitting your dummy out
