Page 8 of 12
Re: joe burgess
Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:38 pm
by DaveO
No straw damn us wrote:ian.birchall wrote:DaveO wrote:
Regardless of what the stated reasons are there has been too much PR flannel in recent seasons for them to be taken seriously.
It is however a sad state of affairs that playing for the most famous UK club and not having won a trophy with them or in fact achieved anything much in the UK game that the sport in the uK is not attractive enough to hold onto the player of his age an relative inexperience.
It really is a matter of who is next.
I read the fans via lotto raised £155,000 for youth development at Wigan. May as well have handed the cheque over to Russell Crowe.
Its all very well IL saying we couldn't keep hold of him, or Sam, or Mossop, or Russell but can anyone tell me how many stars the Whinoes have lost to Oz? Answers on a pin head please. :eusa17:
They lost Mathers (at the time very highly rated) they lost Baldwinson and Tonks to (NZ Warriors, Baldwinson was England academy captain) they lost Chev Walker to Union (at the time one of the best centres in RL) and they lost Calderwood to Wigan all because they stuck to their wage structure.
They've also just lost one of their and RL's best prospects Smith to Warrington.
Over how long has all that happened? It would not surprise me if we had a higher player turnover than that in a single season recently.
Re: joe burgess
Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:27 pm
by ddtftf
Last year when he was in the reserves no NRL club knew of him, so would it not have been a good idea seeing his potential to have given him a 5 yrs. contract that the club would have got at a knockdown price. The spectators have been singing his praised for ages when he was in the reserves.
Re: joe burgess
Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:45 pm
by thegimble
DaveO wrote:Back in the day (well 1983 in fact) Wigan paid schoolboy international Shaun Edwards, aged 17 a £35,000 signing on fee.
That would, accounting for inflation, be equivalent to £108,000 today.
Can anyone see Wigan doing that sort of thing now with Hampshire for example if clubs came sniffing?
A special talent of a tender age is spotted, with clubs queueing up to sign the player, will we be in there seriously bidding or and actually doing enough to retain the player?
I have serious doubts we will and it is no use saying we don't know how they will turn out.
We are supposed to have people and scouts who spot young talent and as a club you do what is necessary to secure it in the hope it will pay off down the line. We'd have never have signed Edwards and no doubt many other players who went on to be stars for us if the club had been so risk-averse.
Seems to me Wigan have decided to treat all players the same way wages wise regardless if any of them are clearly far better than the others. If I am right you can expect to lose every junior player of any special ability. Hampshire would be mad to stay here if Wigan won't pay what he is worth (and what he is worth won't be determined by Wigan but the market).
Should a winger be on the same money as say a young stand off, scrum half, hooker, loose forward. For me Hampshire and Williams needs to be locked down 5 years at least. Williams i think already is. Problem is a decent half is tough to come by. We have only produced 1 quality 6 or 7 in the last 10 years and he was a better FB.
Good Burgess is i would rather loose him than Hampshire even now. Its easy to say we should have paid him X amount to keep him but who goes. Its a simplistic way of thinking that we have to keep him and then do not have the leverage to keep sides away from Rocky.
Quite and i never thought i would say this but its more important for the club to get Sarge signed for 3-5 years than to sign Burgess up. Quality British centres over the last decade you can count on 1 hand. We have produced 3 international quality wingers at the same time.
Or another way of looking at it who do we keep Josh or Burgess and with a cap system you can not have international quality all over the park so decisions on how much to pay needs to be done.
At least if Wigan offered him a decent contract and he refused it should be used to keep Rocky.
Re: joe burgess
Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:21 pm
by doc
Burgess will have to play out of his skin and avoid injury all season. As soon as his form drops or he is injured Manfredi will be in and it will be a better transition for next season if Manfredi stays in the team.
Re: joe burgess
Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:45 pm
by No straw damn us
DaveO wrote:No straw damn us wrote:ian.birchall wrote:
Its all very well IL saying we couldn't keep hold of him, or Sam, or Mossop, or Russell but can anyone tell me how many stars the Whinoes have lost to Oz? Answers on a pin head please. :eusa17:
They lost Mathers (at the time very highly rated) they lost Baldwinson and Tonks to (NZ Warriors, Baldwinson was England academy captain) they lost Chev Walker to Union (at the time one of the best centres in RL) and they lost Calderwood to Wigan all because they stuck to their wage structure.
They've also just lost one of their and RL's best prospects Smith to Warrington.
Over how long has all that happened? It would not surprise me if we had a higher player turnover than that in a single season recently.
Baldwin and Tonks end of 2013, Smith this year.
Re: joe burgess
Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:45 am
by i'm spartacus
KOOCH wrote:
Are we becoming a feeder club for the Nrl ? because it certainly feels like it to me.
It feels like it to me too, and I don't disagree.
This is going to become a bigger problem for the English game that will hurt the competition
Re: joe burgess
Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:46 am
by butt monkey
Whilst I am not happy that Burgess has announced he will be departing, I would like some assurance that if he ever decided to return to the Sl, that Wigan would at least have first option on him.
Has that been stated? Or can we expect him to sign for Stains or Wire or Whinos in a year or two's time
Re: joe burgess
Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:37 pm
by josie andrews
Re: joe burgess
Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:05 pm
by TrueBlueWarrior
Feeder club for the NRL? We have lost 3 players one of which has come back so that is 2, I think it's an overreaction at the moment. Don't get me wrong I don't want to lose any players but we have lost 2 it's not a mass exodus!! Wire lost Cooper, are they a feeder club? Stains lost Graham are they? Leeds lost 2 to NZW and Burgess are they? Bradford lost 3 brothers are they? It's a better competition and the best players will leave for it simple as that!!
Re: joe burgess
Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:03 pm
by DaveO
thegimble wrote:DaveO wrote:Back in the day (well 1983 in fact) Wigan paid schoolboy international Shaun Edwards, aged 17 a £35,000 signing on fee.
That would, accounting for inflation, be equivalent to £108,000 today.
Can anyone see Wigan doing that sort of thing now with Hampshire for example if clubs came sniffing?
A special talent of a tender age is spotted, with clubs queueing up to sign the player, will we be in there seriously bidding or and actually doing enough to retain the player?
I have serious doubts we will and it is no use saying we don't know how they will turn out.
We are supposed to have people and scouts who spot young talent and as a club you do what is necessary to secure it in the hope it will pay off down the line. We'd have never have signed Edwards and no doubt many other players who went on to be stars for us if the club had been so risk-averse.
Seems to me Wigan have decided to treat all players the same way wages wise regardless if any of them are clearly far better than the others. If I am right you can expect to lose every junior player of any special ability. Hampshire would be mad to stay here if Wigan won't pay what he is worth (and what he is worth won't be determined by Wigan but the market).
Should a winger be on the same money as say a young stand off, scrum half, hooker, loose forward. For me Hampshire and Williams needs to be locked down 5 years at least. Williams i think already is. Problem is a decent half is tough to come by. We have only produced 1 quality 6 or 7 in the last 10 years and he was a better FB.
It depends on the individual players doesn't it. Should Burgess command a higher wage than say Powell? From what I have seen, yes.
I am not talking about Burgess though but Hampshire and asking would the Wigan of today be prepared to do what Wigan did in 1983 to sign Edwards in order to get Hampshire to sign a contract, which they may have to do?
Not breaking the bank for Burgess isn't much use if, should the need arise, it must break it for Hampshire but does not.
