Wigan v Wire

[Kittwazzer]

Me too but I doubt we'll ever see the Sam of 2010/2011 again!

Absolutely agreed, and in reality I don't think it was ever really possible. He's had a prosthetic ACL put in, and it would seem unrealistic to believe that would have no negative effect. At the moment, I only see a large lump of the salary cap sitting in the stand, earning a living on some nostalgic notion that he will eventually be the player he once was.

There was a lot of light hearted banter on Sky Thursday.
"Sam will be playing prop or on loan at Leigh"
"Sam is turning cartwheels at the prospect of Morgan Escare Man of Steel!"!

But at some point it won't be a joke. Sam has only played 1 or 6, neither of which can be dropped to accommodate him IMO.

On the plus side, only £100k of his earnings is on our cap

[jobo]

I don't think anyone disagrees with JB being the best forward,but truth is the side hasn't missed him so far and that's a good thing as it can only get better when he returns.

As for Sam? For me he has a lot to,prove after last season and the rise of Escare,I genuinely hope he can find the form we all remember I really do.

Me too but I doubt we'll ever see the Sam of 2010/2011 again!

Absolutely agreed, and in reality I don't think it was ever really possible. He's had a prosthetic ACL put in, and it would seem unrealistic to believe that would have no negative effect. At the moment, I only see a large lump of the salary cap sitting in the stand, earning a living on some nostalgic notion that he will eventually be the player he once was.

Glass half empty view imo.

If he can come back even with 30% of his previous ability gone, he'll waltz back into the side.

If he doesn't, we haven't lost anything as he's under contract and gets paid whether we like it or not.

[morley pie eater]

Where has al this talk of Bateman wanting to go come from or the fact all of a sudden we wouldn't miss him? The lad is injured and will come back and be a Wigan great for many years to come....we need him in my opinion without doubt and to see him go to a rival club would be sickening!!

I think you may partly be referring to me, TBW. I don't think I explained my view on JB or the context very well.

I was responding to this:

Morley, why spend a fortune keeping Bateman? We do fine without him, and his body will break down more and more because of his kamikaze style. Farrell gives us more year in, year out.
Williams though deserves to be paid whatever it takes.

I'm not supporting EW's pov, but was responding to his question.

In my view, looking beyond this season, there are 2 things that should be our priorities:

(1) Keep Williams at all costs. This probably (IMO) means making him the Marquee Player at the expense of Sam??
(2) Free up some cash under salary cap to keep the best of the young lads now coming through. This may come, for example, from Lockers retiring or other player(s) leaving.

Now, in this context, I would say that we should try to keep Bateman as he is, no doubt, a top player. However, I don't see him as being as crucial to our future as George, and wouldn't pay him exceptional money at the cost of losing the generation currently breaking through, so he'd have to be number 3 on my list.

In no way am I undervaluing Bateman, but I don't know many second rows who are as central to the team's performance as a good half-back. Graeme West/Denis Betts/Phil Clarke/Hoffman versus Kenny/Finch/Edwards/Greg?

[TrueBlueWarrior]

Where has al this talk of Bateman wanting to go come from or the fact all of a sudden we wouldn't miss him? The lad is injured and will come back and be a Wigan great for many years to come....we need him in my opinion without doubt and to see him go to a rival club would be sickening!!

I think you may partly be referring to me, TBW. I don't think I explained my view on JB or the context very well.

I was responding to this:

Morley, why spend a fortune keeping Bateman? We do fine without him, and his body will break down more and more because of his kamikaze style. Farrell gives us more year in, year out.
Williams though deserves to be paid whatever it takes.

I'm not supporting EW's pov, but was responding to his question.

In my view, looking beyond this season, there are 2 things that should be our priorities:

(1) Keep Williams at all costs. This probably (IMO) means making him the Marquee Player at the expense of Sam??
(2) Free up some cash under salary cap to keep the best of the young lads now coming through. This may come, for example, from Lockers retiring or other player(s) leaving.

Now, in this context, I would say that we should try to keep Bateman as he is, no doubt, a top player. However, I don't see him as being as crucial to our future as George, and wouldn't pay him exceptional money at the cost of losing the generation currently breaking through, so he'd have to be number 3 on my list.

In no way am I undervaluing Bateman, but I don't know many second rows who are as central to the team's performance as a good half-back. Graeme West/Denis Betts/Phil Clarke/Hoffman versus Kenny/Finch/Edwards/Greg?

MPE, great post and makes absolute sense!!

[fozzieskem]

MPE,that was a wonderful post one that makes absolute sense.

I feel that frighteningly Williams isnt anywhere near the finished article yet,when you see him do something that doesnt come off i wonder frankly what the fuss is about and then boom he does something that is two or three moves ahead of everyone else on the pitch..

Can he become a great? well who knows in fairness i hope so but i suspect it'll be in the NRL where he flowers or founders,i really hope i'm wrong though.

Going to say something that no one will agree with me on now...Wigan would have won the world club challenge without Bateman being on the pitch,there i've said it,i'm not disparaging JB in any way shape or form but that side has so much cover now he simply isnt missed,you can't say that about Lockers mind,but thats for another day and another thread the simple fact bar Lockers no player is missed in the current Wigan side.

[TrueBlueWarrior]

We need to keep all our best players and arguably JB and GW are the best 2!!

[Exiled Wiganer]

I agree entirely with Morley.
I do think that the ball players are more important than the hard workers, but we may well be able to keep both Farrell and Bateman, while tying down Escare and Williams. In that regard, I was encouraged that we seem to be letting Tautai go, as I think that we can cover his loss with the likes of Bretherton and Navarette in a way we could not Williams or Escare. If this means that we are looking to sign up Escare for a long term deal I will be a very happy man.

On Sam, we have got ourselves in nearly the perfect position (it would be perfect if his contract ended this year) - it is up to him. The team simply no longer needs him to win things, so he needs to make his case.

[TrueBlueWarrior]

I agree entirely with Morley.
I do think that the ball players are more important than the hard workers, but we may well be able to keep both Farrell and Bateman, while tying down Escare and Williams. In that regard, I was encouraged that we seem to be letting Tautai go, as I think that we can cover his loss with the likes of Bretherton and Navarette in a way we could not Williams or Escare. If this means that we are looking to sign up Escare for a long term deal I will be a very happy man.

On Sam, we have got ourselves in nearly the perfect position (it would be perfect if his contract ended this year) - it is up to him. The team simply no longer needs him to win things, so he needs to make his case.

Without the hard workers there is no point in having ball players!!

[Exiled Wiganer]

Very true, as we showed Wire on Thursday.