POWELL!!

[Wigan_forever1985]

Im not suggesting we have to get rid of Bateman to get a hooker in you asked me about easy ways to free up cap so im giving you an example of the bits i know. We have KPP and Farrell who could easily be our starting backrow

I find it interesting you say Clark is a "spent force" and Leeming is "nothing special" because Shaun Wane who you trust in his judgement thinks both are better than Powell, he also thinks Roby, Mcshane and Mickey Mac are better - as they were all choices for England ahead of Powell. So thats Shaun Wanes opinion when he is allowed other options outside of that Wigan bubble

You mentioned the stick that Harry got, i supported him last year as i believed he was too young to judge at 21 - he's proved a lot of people wrong and now is getting the plaudits. I think youre being harsh on Cust i wouldnt say there are a lot of better halves than him, he doesnt get stick as you say yourself because of the contributions he makes to winning games. I agree he's probably a better hooker than half but i think he is quality and can play both, he's also still young and still developing.

You've highlighted the nonsense that posters simply pick someone to dislike with the Harry example - he wasnt up to it last year got stick, he is this year and doesnt - because now he's making the contributions needed to earn his place

Sam gets a constant level of critique because his standard has always been sub-par even in the season he was praised for he was praised for stepping up into micky macs shoes in our time of need and not "dropping the ball" so to speak - it was never that people thought wow! what a hooker

this idea that Powell is a cog in a wheel is great but he should be making telling contributions to us winning games like all other hookers do. He doesnt, he wont lose you a match thats true but he is incapable of winning you a match either and for someone in a position so vital i just dont think thats good enough

I know people dont want it to be true but he is painfully average and just doesnt contribute enough for a top team hooker. Its not just the national team he is over looked - he's no awards to his name either - you know the recongition from your peers - when was the last time he won MOM or was the stand out player? if you cant stand out playing 80 mintues touching the ball more than anyone else surely that says something

Clark may be a spent force (i dont agree) but still ahead of Powell at England level, twice in the dream team10 caps for international playing - lance todd trophy winner

Leeming been in the dream team ahead of powell in international set up

Mcshane - ahead of him in international set up - man of steel winner

I wont even get into Robys awards

but even players like Houghton, Scott Moore, Shaun Lunt, Matt Parcell have made it to the dream team - yet Powell again never featured despite being in one of the more sucessful teams

Its almost as if everyone has it in for him isnt it?

[Caboosegg]

Im not suggesting we have to get rid of Bateman to get a hooker in you asked me about easy ways to free up cap so im giving you an example of the bits i know. We have KPP and Farrell who could easily be our starting backrow

I find it interesting you say Clark is a "spent force" and Leeming is "nothing special" because Shaun Wane who you trust in his judgement thinks both are better than Powell, he also thinks Roby, Mcshane and Mickey Mac are better - as they were all choices for England ahead of Powell. So thats Shaun Wanes opinion when he is allowed other options outside of that Wigan bubble

You mentioned the stick that Harry got, i supported him last year as i believed he was too young to judge at 21 - he's proved a lot of people wrong and now is getting the plaudits. I think youre being harsh on Cust i wouldnt say there are a lot of better halves than him, he doesnt get stick as you say yourself because of the contributions he makes to winning games. I agree he's probably a better hooker than half but i think he is quality and can play both, he's also still young and still developing.

You've highlighted the nonsense that posters simply pick someone to dislike with the Harry example - he wasnt up to it last year got stick, he is this year and doesnt - because now he's making the contributions needed to earn his place

Sam gets a constant level of critique because his standard has always been sub-par even in the season he was praised for he was praised for stepping up into micky macs shoes in our time of need and not "dropping the ball" so to speak - it was never that people thought wow! what a hooker

this idea that Powell is a cog in a wheel is great but he should be making telling contributions to us winning games like all other hookers do. He doesnt, he wont lose you a match thats true but he is incapable of winning you a match either and for someone in a position so vital i just dont think thats good enough

I know people dont want it to be true but he is painfully average and just doesnt contribute enough for a top team hooker. Its not just the national team he is over looked - he's no awards to his name either - you know the recongition from your peers - when was the last time he won MOM or was the stand out player? if you cant stand out playing 80 mintues touching the ball more than anyone else surely that says something

Clark may be a spent force (i dont agree) but still ahead of Powell at England level, twice in the dream team10 caps for international playing - lance todd trophy winner

Leeming been in the dream team ahead of powell in international set up

Mcshane - ahead of him in international set up - man of steel winner

I wont even get into Robys awards

but even players like Houghton, Scott Moore, Shaun Lunt, Matt Parcell have made it to the dream team - yet Powell again never featured despite being in one of the more sucessful teams

Its almost as if everyone has it in for him isnt it?

Powell has 2 more GF winners rings than most on that list

[Suzieb]

I agree leave Powell alone I’m sure the coaches will make the right decision

[Barney841]

Im not suggesting we have to get rid of Bateman to get a hooker in you asked me about easy ways to free up cap so im giving you an example of the bits i know. We have KPP and Farrell who could easily be our starting backrow

I find it interesting you say Clark is a "spent force" and Leeming is "nothing special" because Shaun Wane who you trust in his judgement thinks both are better than Powell, he also thinks Roby, Mcshane and Mickey Mac are better - as they were all choices for England ahead of Powell. So thats Shaun Wanes opinion when he is allowed other options outside of that Wigan bubble

You mentioned the stick that Harry got, i supported him last year as i believed he was too young to judge at 21 - he's proved a lot of people wrong and now is getting the plaudits. I think youre being harsh on Cust i wouldnt say there are a lot of better halves than him, he doesnt get stick as you say yourself because of the contributions he makes to winning games. I agree he's probably a better hooker than half but i think he is quality and can play both, he's also still young and still developing.

You've highlighted the nonsense that posters simply pick someone to dislike with the Harry example - he wasnt up to it last year got stick, he is this year and doesnt - because now he's making the contributions needed to earn his place

Sam gets a constant level of critique because his standard has always been sub-par even in the season he was praised for he was praised for stepping up into micky macs shoes in our time of need and not "dropping the ball" so to speak - it was never that people thought wow! what a hooker

this idea that Powell is a cog in a wheel is great but he should be making telling contributions to us winning games like all other hookers do. He doesnt, he wont lose you a match thats true but he is incapable of winning you a match either and for someone in a position so vital i just dont think thats good enough

I know people dont want it to be true but he is painfully average and just doesnt contribute enough for a top team hooker. Its not just the national team he is over looked - he's no awards to his name either - you know the recongition from your peers - when was the last time he won MOM or was the stand out player? if you cant stand out playing 80 mintues touching the ball more than anyone else surely that says something

Clark may be a spent force (i dont agree) but still ahead of Powell at England level, twice in the dream team10 caps for international playing - lance todd trophy winner

Leeming been in the dream team ahead of powell in international set up

Mcshane - ahead of him in international set up - man of steel winner

I wont even get into Robys awards

but even players like Houghton, Scott Moore, Shaun Lunt, Matt Parcell have made it to the dream team - yet Powell again never featured despite being in one of the more sucessful teams

Its almost as if everyone has it in for him isnt it?

Powell has 2 more GF winners rings than most on that list

Ryan Bailey had 6 but I still wouldn’t of took him when he left Leeds, in fact he never settled into a team after he left Leeds

[Wigan_forever1985]

I agree leave Powell alone I’m sure the coaches will make the right decision

People go on about Powell getting a rough time on here name one other player that gets this level of protection without offering any context by supporters

Isa/bibby/minski all get ripped to shreds on here for ability yet no one jumps to their defence saying things like “awwww leave isa alone he’s trying”

[buttmonkey2]

Last night' retro-match on SKY last night was Wigan v Leeds in the Magic event at the Etihad in 2014

https://www.skysports.com/rugby-league/ ... eams/41559

It was interesting to watch as Wigan were missing plenty of players but still managed a win against an almost full strength Rhinos. Also included an incident that saw McIlorum & Bateman for Wigan yellow-carded along with Ryan Bailey for Leeds.

McIlorum played loose forward due to Lockers being injured with George Williams playing hooker and Blake Green and Matty Smith the halfbacks. Sam P was on the bench. Coach was one Shaun Wane

It was interesting to watch because it was obvious that even though McIlorum was playing out of position, the coach - a Mr Wane - picked Williams at hooker ahead of Sam P. Sam did come on and went to dummy half a couple of times but spent little time near the action overall

What does this tell you? Nothing!

But it does tell you that it took losing McIlorum to injury (then eventually releasing) to give Sam the automatic starting spot he has since almost religiously been given. As for almost 3 seasons he was nothing more than a bench warmer who covered 6, 7 & hooker but never actually claimed one of those positions as other players were ahead of him at that time.

[Wigan_forever1985]

Well he came through as a half back but was always not talented enough at top level for it - wane actually gave him the number 7 after his stint covering mickey mac if you remember and after about 3-4 games it was obvious he couldn’t do it so they moved him back to 9

Again it comes back to “coaches pick him” but since mickey mac there hasn’t been a single other hooker at the club in the senior team or a junior breaking through it’s only this year that’s actually happened

[Charriots Offiah]

Im not suggesting we have to get rid of Bateman to get a hooker in you asked me about easy ways to free up cap so im giving you an example of the bits i know. We have KPP and Farrell who could easily be our starting backrow

We do have Faz and KPP but our long-term planning does not include the later so it would be suicidal to let Batty go. Come the big matches Batty performs

I find it interesting you say Clark is a "spent force" and Leeming is "nothing special" because Shaun Wane who you trust in his judgement thinks both are better than Powell, he also thinks Roby, Mcshane and Mickey Mac are better - as they were all choices for England ahead of Powell. So thats Shaun Wanes opinion when he is allowed other options outside of that Wigan bubble

First and foremost I am not saying that Powell is a top hooker. Ackers is the best 9 in SL, I don’t see anything in the players you have listed. McShane, Roby and Mac are on the slide and if Wane needs to rely on them then England’s chances in the World Cup are very slim. Having said that they have been excellent in the past. There are no hookers in SL apart from Ackers that I would look to recruit, and the annoying part of it is we let him go. We would need to dip into the NRL and that would come at great expense probably meaning that we would need to release one of our better non-federation players. Personally, I am happy to stick with what we have got and let O’Neill and Powell fight it out for a spot in the team.

You mentioned the stick that Harry got, i supported him last year as i believed he was too young to judge at 21 - he's proved a lot of people wrong and now is getting the plaudits. I think youre being harsh on Cust i wouldnt say there are a lot of better halves than him, he doesnt get stick as you say yourself because of the contributions he makes to winning games. I agree he's probably a better hooker than half but i think he is quality and can play both, he's also still young and still developing.

I like Harry and I always have, without him our attack is seriously hampered. In my view Cust lacks the pre-requisite skills to make him a good 6 - no genuine pace, poor kicking game and limited ball handling skills, however he is tough, strong, has vision and can deliver a pass from dummy half which makes him more suited to the hooker role. There are far better halfbacks in SL - Lomax, Dodds, Williams, Trueman, Fages, Croft and dare I say Welsby to name a few
You've highlighted the nonsense that posters simply pick someone to dislike with the Harry example - he wasnt up to it last year got stick, he is this year and doesnt - because now he's making the contributions needed to earn his place
People who posted the nonsense about Smith show me that they know little about the game. He has improved and that is down to his willingness to learn, his application and the excellent coaching he has received. Also, the players around him have helped him develop.
Sam gets a constant level of critique because his standard has always been sub-par even in the season he was praised for he was praised for stepping up into micky macs shoes in our time of need and not "dropping the ball" so to speak - it was never that people thought wow! what a hooker

What standard should he be performing at? The next time you get chance to speak to his teammates, past and present, ask them what they think about him. Sam does have his limitations but he also has certain attributes which his teammates appreciate

this idea that Powell is a cog in a wheel is great but he should be making telling contributions to us winning games like all other hookers do. He doesnt, he wont lose you a match thats true but he is incapable of winning you a match either and for someone in a position so vital i just dont think thats good enough

Sam plays the role that the coaching staff ask of him. Of course he makes telling contributions to winning matches, all our players do. His lack of pace is not ideal but I guarantee that the lads who play in the middle are more than happy when his name appears on the team sheet

I know people dont want it to be true but he is painfully average and just doesnt contribute enough for a top team hooker. Its not just the national team he is over looked - he's no awards to his name either - you know the recongition from your peers - when was the last time he won MOM or was the stand out player? if you cant stand out playing 80 mintues touching the ball more than anyone else surely that says something

I would agree that offensively he appears to be an average player but believe me the lad has got skill it just needs bringing out. I watched him destroy the Australian schoolboys when he was younger. As I have said his pace is his biggest weakness

Clark may be a spent force (i dont agree) but still ahead of Powell at England level, twice in the dream team10 caps for international playing - lance todd trophy winner

It is irrelevant what Clark has won previously, his form this season has been very poor, just ask the Wire fans.

Leeming been in the dream team ahead of powell in international set up if he is that good then why have Leeds been so poor?

Mcshane - ahead of him in international set up - man of steel winner again another excellent player in the past but he has had a poor season

I wont even get into Robys awards Roby has been one of the best, players like him don’t grow on trees but, at his age, the future is limited. He looked seriously fatigued in the recent derby match

but even players like Houghton, Scott Moore, Shaun Lunt, Matt Parcell have made it to the dream team - yet Powell again never featured despite being in one of the more sucessful teams

Its almost as if everyone has it in for him isnt it?

Not everyone has it in for him but some supporters have scapegoats, it it wasn’t Sam it would be someone else. As far as I am concerned the collective is far more important than any individual

Having said all of that I am more than happy for O’Neill to continue, he has earned his chance

[Exiled Wiganer]

I think that Chariots’ post is excellent. I disagree with some elements of it, but it is cogent and measured.

[Wigan_forever1985]

I think that Chariots’ post is excellent. I disagree with some elements of it, but it is cogent and measured.

I agree and it’s nice to debate someone who actually responds to the points made

I’m retort there are a few areas where I think myself and chariots disagree that aren’t as much debatable as they are differences in opinion

My view is 9 is one of if not the most important role in the pitch so I’d be happy to divert resources to getting a better one - for example I’d rather have a poorer second row and better hooker but either one has merits

There are a couple of points though I’d argue back in

The idea powell has talent it just needs bringing out - he’s 30 - he isn’t getting any better now the slide you talk of the others on - is the same one powell will be in yet starting from a lower point

What you do at school boy is sadly many many players never go on to be anything in the professional ranks after impressive junior records

The other point on O’Neill fighting it out with Sam for the 9 jersey - I’d be happy with that too but I get the feeling that unless Sam is injured he plays - so that’s not a fair fight

We will see soon because O’Neill has been in great form and should remain in the team but I’m putting money on him being chucked as soon as Sam can play. In addition we seem to be against a 9 rotation that involves 2 9’s usually shorrocks is put on the bench as either an emergency 9 or We move around the back line to get Cust in at 9

But I’d Powell plays he will usually barring injury play 80mins which is going to serious limit O’Neils chances