Wigan vs Hull

[Charriots Offiah]

Maybe we should have rested a few v Hudds and taken Hull/CC more seriously?

Likely Field out for a month at the very least and Ellis for 1 game, likewise Keighran?
Would we risk promoting Hodkinson/Lowe now - Hill can cover for Ellis?

Ellis passed his HIA.

[medlocke]

We miss the experience of Willie Isa, Faz is a spent force

[Charriots Offiah]

Well, that was grim watching and I don't just mean the appalling BBC coverage.
Practically everyone had an off day excepting Forber who was outstanding in a beaten pack in the second half and that includes the referee who had a poor game.
The tactical switch when Field went off was hard to understand and I'm with Bilko who said the best changes are the simplest. Eckersley to FB - Keighran to the wing Bevan to stay in the halves and Faz/Walters to centre.
Eckersley's deficiencies in defence which were on show last week cost us badly.
It looked as if Hull understood that no Video ref meant a license to foul. Keighran's injury would have been picked up by a video ref with a minimum sinbin and maybe worse. It looked like a deliberate late and dangerous shot. There was also a likely captain's challenge over a Hull knockon that wasn't spotted.
Not sure whether it would have changed the result but Keighran would have been able to kick and defend better, which might have influenced the decision to move him around in the halves.
We should still have won against a fairly poor Hull side and the only positive is that it might concentrate minds for the rest of the season.

The worst decision of the day was leaving a one legged AK on the pitch.

[No straw damn us]

So if Eckersley went to fullback, who would have gone on the wing? Keighran was on crutches and in a knee brace after the game!

[Mike]

That would always been a problem if you'd removed Keighran. I suppose the decision was that Keighran was less exposed in defense in the middle than on the edge. We're we're always going to be badly disruptes with 2 backs out and 4 forwards on the bench, but I'd have kept the halves together personally.

I think the formation changes affected our defence badly (I hope they did anyway because that was substandard in the second half). Our attack was mainly affected by over-confidence IMO. Wed had 3 good attacking games and the first half started very well. At that point everyone started overplaying. Ellis passed every time, not just part of the time. Everyone tried to offload regardless of the support, the backs tried to score every time a half break was on the cards rather than building pressure. The coaches have to address that over-confidence.

[EagleEyePie]

Even without the disruption there were some things we did even when on top that were really poor and led to our defeat. The first try was a shocker to concede. They had good field position but didn't look like breaching our defence. For Dupree to miss that one on one tackle was really poor.

I also thought he was at fault for Hull's second try. Smith obviously threw a shocking pass for the intercept, but when Hull went wide after the tackle Dupree is alongside Smith. He's immediately flat footed and unwilling to cover across the field. He sees Farrell covering across the field so just stops and lets him pass. Hull then run an angle on Smith's inside shoulder right into the space that Farrell is trying to cover. The gap shouldn't be there. Dupree should have carried on going wide and stayed on Smith's inside until that phase was done. It's just lazy defending and I thought Dupree was generally very poor in terms of movement in the middle of the field.

Hull seemed to pinpoint that our middle defence was very compact and not moving across quickly so they deliberatley pushed their backs further wide. There was often acres of space when setting up a play where the ball carrier would have a lead runner and a playmaker on his shoulder but then acres of space between the two halves and the left edge. Even when down to 12 men they did this and would bypass our really compact middles and immediatley leave our right edge facing an overlap and having to make decisions, which often were the wrong decisions.

Keighran's injury meant that he couldn't run and he seemed to be a little slow to move across at times. Sezer was squaring up Walters and getting on his outside shoulder and interesting Keighran enough that it was keeping Farrell narrow too. Eckersley compounded things with some poor decision making where he'd jump out the line seemingly unaware of how wide his opposite number was and the space he was leaving.

The coaching team obviously felt like Eckersley was making the wrong decisions as they moved Marshall to the right towards the end of the game but I thought it made little sense. Our vulnerability was that having one-legged Keighran who couldn't run and Farrell at centre who isn't quick enough to defend in that position against a pacey attack meant that we didn't have the speed to cover across. For the winning try Marshall made the same mistake that Eckersley was making. The lack of mobility from our half and centre would make any winger focused on what was happening on the inside.

It's easy in hindsight, but personally I'd have moved Wardle to the right edge, or maybe both Wardle and Marshall. I know you generally want to make sure your edges are consistent but I'd rather have Wardle and Marshall facing a teams biggest threat than Farrell and Eckersley.

I'm a fan of Eckersley, but I feel like he's too hit and miss on the wing to be guranteed a place as Miski's understudy. He's good in the air and he can be strong in the tackle too, but he's also not that effective carrying the ball and his decision making as a winger seems very poor. I'd like to see Douglas get some opportunities because while he has some weaknesses too, he's a natural winger and I really like his work rate.

[Charriots Offiah]

So if Eckersley went to fullback, who would have gone on the wing? Keighran was on crutches and in a knee brace after the game!

It’s irrelevant, a fit player is better than one with only one leg. We got exposed time and time again on our right wing. AK may have done further damage!

[Charriots Offiah]

That would always been a problem if you'd removed Keighran. I suppose the decision was that Keighran was less exposed in defense in the middle than on the edge. We're we're always going to be badly disruptes with 2 backs out and 4 forwards on the bench, but I'd have kept the halves together personally.

I think the formation changes affected our defence badly (I hope they did anyway because that was substandard in the second half). Our attack was mainly affected by over-confidence IMO. Wed had 3 good attacking games and the first half started very well. At that point everyone started overplaying. Ellis passed every time, not just part of the time. Everyone tried to offload regardless of the support, the backs tried to score every time a half break was on the cards rather than building pressure. The coaches have to address that over-confidence.

Leeming could have played in the halves. Moving French to fullback took away our running game.

[Charriots Offiah]

Even without the disruption there were some things we did even when on top that were really poor and led to our defeat. The first try was a shocker to concede. They had good field position but didn't look like breaching our defence. For Dupree to miss that one on one tackle was really poor.

I also thought he was at fault for Hull's second try. Smith obviously threw a shocking pass for the intercept, but when Hull went wide after the tackle Dupree is alongside Smith. He's immediately flat footed and unwilling to cover across the field. He sees Farrell covering across the field so just stops and lets him pass. Hull then run an angle on Smith's inside shoulder right into the space that Farrell is trying to cover. The gap shouldn't be there. Dupree should have carried on going wide and stayed on Smith's inside until that phase was done. It's just lazy defending and I thought Dupree was generally very poor in terms of movement in the middle of the field.

Hull seemed to pinpoint that our middle defence was very compact and not moving across quickly so they deliberatley pushed their backs further wide. There was often acres of space when setting up a play where the ball carrier would have a lead runner and a playmaker on his shoulder but then acres of space between the two halves and the left edge. Even when down to 12 men they did this and would bypass our really compact middles and immediatley leave our right edge facing an overlap and having to make decisions, which often were the wrong decisions.

Keighran's injury meant that he couldn't run and he seemed to be a little slow to move across at times. Sezer was squaring up Walters and getting on his outside shoulder and interesting Keighran enough that it was keeping Farrell narrow too. Eckersley compounded things with some poor decision making where he'd jump out the line seemingly unaware of how wide his opposite number was and the space he was leaving.

The coaching team obviously felt like Eckersley was making the wrong decisions as they moved Marshall to the right towards the end of the game but I thought it made little sense. Our vulnerability was that having one-legged Keighran who couldn't run and Farrell at centre who isn't quick enough to defend in that position against a pacey attack meant that we didn't have the speed to cover across. For the winning try Marshall made the same mistake that Eckersley was making. The lack of mobility from our half and centre would make any winger focused on what was happening on the inside.

It's easy in hindsight, but personally I'd have moved Wardle to the right edge, or maybe both Wardle and Marshall. I know you generally want to make sure your edges are consistent but I'd rather have Wardle and Marshall facing a teams biggest threat than Farrell and Eckersley.

I'm a fan of Eckersley, but I feel like he's too hit and miss on the wing to be guranteed a place as Miski's understudy. He's good in the air and he can be strong in the tackle too, but he's also not that effective carrying the ball and his decision making as a winger seems very poor. I'd like to see Douglas get some opportunities because while he has some weaknesses too, he's a natural winger and I really like his work rate.

I think that is a very fair summary. The last time we played so poorly was probably the first half away at Hull last season. After saying that, we should not be losing a cup tie on home soil when 16 points up at halftime.

[doc]

Our issue is that Nsemba and Walters are both 2nd row/props and Farrell is playing on the wrong side of the field to accommodate Junior on his best side. When Faz covers right centre in an emergency it makes matters worse. We have been left with a big Willie Isa shaped hole that we need to work out how to fill and I don't think Mason Jnr. or O'loughlin Jnr. are the answer and neither is Hirst.