Tomkins saga over as he signs for the NZW

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Everhopeful
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Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:01 am

Re: Tomkins saga over as he signs for the NZW

Post by Everhopeful »

Kaii wrote:For a start he comment was never intended to get people to bite, I just can't see what the move offers for him apart from money. Here we are top of the league with best attack and defence, the two top try scorers of from Wigan ( Sam & josh). He's loved by the fans and fans of the national side and our derby matches are the best in rugby. Plus his family are here, just can't see what nz warriors can offer to compare.

Btw I'm not trying to be offensive
I haven't found anything you have said offensive in the least.

I guess I see ST's move as similar to professional and personal development that people seek and yearn for in many lines of work.

For example, I am a secondary teacher. My professional career started in the school I currently teach at 6 years ago. The school is fantastic and I am good at my job. However, I wish to move on. I will miss the students and the staff immensely and they will miss me. We are a good partnership. But I have learnt a large percentage of lessons that this particular workplace can teach me. I am now too comfortable and I'm not being challenged to the same extent as I used to be. Professionally and personally my journey needs to continue elsewhere. It is how I and others will get the best out of me. Moving on is scary and exciting. It will also be sad, but I'll never forget where I started. I may even return one day. Perhaps this is some of what ST feels? Perhaps not, but it would be my answer to some of the questions you asked.

In response to Mt Smart - yes the NZ Warriors are the most well-travelled team in the NRL, which is hard and we have historically been very poor in away fixtures. In fact this weekend they travel 15 hours to Perth to take on the top of the table Rabbitohs - ouch!
cpwigan
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Re: Tomkins saga over as he signs for the NZW

Post by cpwigan »

NZ Warrior fans need to think of Billy Slater at his peak because IMO that is what you are getting with Sam. Why leave ourselves (Wigan).

Money and challenge. If you want to be globally recognised as a great RL player then you need to play in the NRL at some point. Financially, NZ is better than Aus due to the tax laws. I know his friends said why NZ instead of Aus re climate / lifestyle but Dennis Betts this week said NZ was a fantastic place etc and sometimes people forget that not all Aus clubs have wonderful climate etc. For example Canberra. I think Sam has spent time with Joel in London and enjoyed the big city lifestyle etc.

We are gutted (well I am) to be losing such a talent and like many are annoyed that it was always presented to us by our club that his 5 year contract meant we definetly kept him for 3 years rather than 2. It does not help when other clubs seem to fend off approaches more readily. For example this week; apparently Roby (St Helens) turned down Parra. He should have gone IMO BTW.

A question to our NZ contributors. What do you think of Matty Elliott Is their still a difficulty getting the Islander players to play hard clinical NRL RL than their natural higher risk game, likewise attitude across the board etc.

You have got a gem with Sam!!
MT Smart
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Re: Tomkins saga over as he signs for the NZW

Post by MT Smart »

cpwigan wrote:
A question to our NZ contributors. What do you think of Matty Elliott Is their still a difficulty getting the Islander players to play hard clinical NRL RL than their natural higher risk game, likewise attitude across the board etc.

You have got a gem with Sam!!
I'm not one of the NZWarriors ( still getting used to having to add the 'NZ' ) fans who has any doubts about Sam Tomkins. I think he is one of the greatest players I have ever seen.
Matt Elliot is still very New But two qualities that stand out are both about his personality. He is a big ideas man , and the way he got the job when the Six Million dollar Bid for Craig Bellamy fell over....was due to Matt Elliots personality not his coaching record ).
Elliot sold himself by proposing a vision where the Warriors will change the entire Club structure so that our Juniors and reserve grade coaches have to fall into line with the Top sides needs. This is why our Two time Winning NRL Juniors Coach John Akland is leaving.
John Akland favors filling the Junior team with Giants / power players who bully the opposition into submission then rip them apart with the Polynesian Flair you hinted at.
Elliot has our best jnrs being promoted to Reserve grade now ( this weekend six were moved up ) in the mind set that they will have to learn to play against Veteran Ex First grade hard grinding footballers week in week out.
Instant promotion to the Top side of Jnr X factor players has stopped under Mathew Elliot and in fact he has dropped a couple out of the first grade team who he is now reintroducing ( with remarkable results ).
Matty Elliot has another helpful trait, he is flexible. Many ' experts ' have theorised that the Polynesian players lack mental toughness.
In My experience of the New Zealand rugby league scene this is a misnomer.
A more accurate generalisation is that Polynesians are confidence players , if you take the right approach ( build confidence ) then they are gold.
Case in point : Matt Elliot brought his structures to the club and we were bottom of table after giving them a fair go. The Senior players approached Matt Elliot as a group and told him they wanted to play more direct , have props running straight at people ( Polynesians love the tough stuff ) , Elliot was smart enough to adapt and we are winning.
The Irony is that Ivan Cleary our coach before Bluey , was top heavy on structure , he selected teams full of secound rowers and converted the Warriors to a boorish style of game , the attack plan was entirely built on kicking the ball to our Super Winger Manu Vatuvei.Such was the extent of Cleary's structuring that he had to import a Polynesian from the Paramata Eels to bring back some X Factor / Flair.
So Matty Elliot didn't really have to introduce discipline / structure to turn things around. He needed to find a way to get the players to develop self belief.
The Missing part of the Jigsaw then is a winning Culture. The Warriors have always fed off imports who bring this infectious self confidence. Sam Tomkins is critical to solving the puzzle.
An ongoing relationship with Wigan will I believe....be a win win long term.
Consider that Polynesians mature physically faster than their European Counter parts , what they need is the Mental / psychological influence of another system.
Accordingly our Juniors are set to explode into the kind of production Line of World beaters you see with the Rubgy Union set up here.
I think it is a very smart move for Wigan to Align themselves with that future.
You should demand the best players in the NRL at their peak or very near too it. Right now Konrad Hurrell and Glen fisiahi would be two players who exemplify this culture change.
Sam Tomkins will return home. Our talents should follow the same path , two years in the ESL as genuine First Grade high Quality before they leave our shores, then come home and bring the Wigan culture with them.
cpwigan
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Re: Tomkins saga over as he signs for the NZW

Post by cpwigan »

I would love for youngsters to go to NRL clubs like the Warriors. The biggest problem we have in Britain is the depth / quality of our competitions is weak but even weaker at junior levels to the point our youngsters stagnate in their development. The RFL has screwed the Academy system up too which does not help. Traditionally, the way around that here was to push players up to an higher age group. We have never adopted by weight player categories. I think the early maturity of Polynesians has become a problem in Australasia.

I think the stagnation issue is a primary reason in NRL clubs looking at young SL players. In any league / any country there will always be naturally gifted players. I have long advocated sebding our youngsters Down Under on scholarship. We have a very promising winger Joe Burgess who would benefit greatly. To be honest the list of youngsters who would is mind boggling. The fear some have with good rationality is that we may never get them all back with the best staying Down Under. I think the gain is great enough to accept the risk.

What your fans might find staggering is that at 16 Sam was even smaller / frailer BUT it meant he had to toughen up very early and deal with big youngsters trying to run over him / through him. He had a post 16 growth spurt that led to his leggy gazelle appearance and IMO these diminutive players are the difference between winning and losing in the NRL. Every team has grunt and hard nosed players but sparkle / x-factor separated the winning / losing teams IMO.

IMO the Warriors have one of the most gifted mecurial ball handling forwards in the modern game in Mateo. Gareth Hock going to the Eels has similar talent. Sam is great running off those players.

How does League now fare compared to Union in NZ, is it still a niche interest?
MT Smart
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Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 9:44 am

Re: Tomkins saga over as he signs for the NZW

Post by MT Smart »

Rugby league is still very small by comparison to Union.

However the NRL coverage and the Warriors playing on TV obviously has had a massive impact. After an initial boost in numbers they dropped off when the Warriors failed to reach the heights everyone in the NRL keeps going on about that they are well capable of. NZ fans are very fickle , they jump on the latest fad and tend to drift away when a team is no longer winning.

The biggest change is the advent of the Under 20's comp and that these games are live on TV.

We have been under Unions thumb for a century. Owen Glen and Eric Watson our club owners have committed to throwing the weight of their Billion dollar empire behind growing the game from the ground up.

Real indicators of change are the players the Rugby Union Schools system have lost to the Warriors Juniors program. That's a big deal over here , long may it continue that we raid Union instead of the other way around.

More important is the School competition the Warriors kicked off this year. Having Steve Price come on board and Coach the Mt Albert High school team is turning heads slowly.

I don't know what sought of coach he will be but as a player he brought the Bulldogs Culture to the Warriors for a time.

NZ still doesn't have a nation wide School competition , most schools don't play , and a lot of the Union power house schools in Auckland have elected to sit back and keep league out of their sports options.

When they decide (if) to let kids play the game , things will look very different.

The NRL are fully aware of the potential for massive growth if the NZWARRIORS win a grand final. Our merchandise is the biggest seller / profit maker in Australia as it is.
josie andrews
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Re: Tomkins saga over as he signs for the NZW

Post by josie andrews »

Welcome to the site Everhopeful :)
Anyone can support a team when it is winning, that takes no courage.
But to stand behind a team, to defend a team when it is down and really needs you,
that takes a lot of courage. #18thMan
cpwigan
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:03 pm

Re: Tomkins saga over as he signs for the NZW

Post by cpwigan »

The good news depending on your POV is that I believe Wane has not signed anything etc to go to the NRL.
MT Smart
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 9:44 am

Re: Tomkins saga over as he signs for the NZW

Post by MT Smart »

Three NZ Warriors players embarrassed themselves minutes ago by tweeting that Sam Tomkins had signed for the NZWARRIORS

It was at an official Luncheon for two testimonial players Manu Vatuvei ( season ten ) and Jerome Ropati ( 11th season ).

The three players are all Vulcans idiots not first graders

Tripple M picked up on it and ran a short article

Ignore it , it's a spam job by three imature young men that will cop some punishment / admonishment from the club
Wandering Warrior
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Re: Tomkins saga over as he signs for the NZW

Post by Wandering Warrior »

How can it be a spam job when things point to it being true?!
When John Byrom plays on snow, he doesn't leave any footprints - Jimmy Armfield
Kittwazzer
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Re: Tomkins saga over as he signs for the NZW

Post by Kittwazzer »

Wandering Warrior wrote:How can it be a spam job when things point to it being true?!
Non sequitur. Spam doesn't have to be untrue!
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