joe burgess

[thegimble]

Back in the day (well 1983 in fact) Wigan paid schoolboy international Shaun Edwards, aged 17 a £35,000 signing on fee.

That would, accounting for inflation, be equivalent to £108,000 today.

Can anyone see Wigan doing that sort of thing now with Hampshire for example if clubs came sniffing?

A special talent of a tender age is spotted, with clubs queueing up to sign the player, will we be in there seriously bidding or and actually doing enough to retain the player?

I have serious doubts we will and it is no use saying we don't know how they will turn out.

We are supposed to have people and scouts who spot young talent and as a club you do what is necessary to secure it in the hope it will pay off down the line. We'd have never have signed Edwards and no doubt many other players who went on to be stars for us if the club had been so risk-averse.

Seems to me Wigan have decided to treat all players the same way wages wise regardless if any of them are clearly far better than the others. If I am right you can expect to lose every junior player of any special ability. Hampshire would be mad to stay here if Wigan won't pay what he is worth (and what he is worth won't be determined by Wigan but the market).

Should a winger be on the same money as say a young stand off, scrum half, hooker, loose forward. For me Hampshire and Williams needs to be locked down 5 years at least. Williams i think already is. Problem is a decent half is tough to come by. We have only produced 1 quality 6 or 7 in the last 10 years and he was a better FB.

It depends on the individual players doesn't it. Should Burgess command a higher wage than say Powell? From what I have seen, yes.

I am not talking about Burgess though but Hampshire and asking would the Wigan of today be prepared to do what Wigan did in 1983 to sign Edwards in order to get Hampshire to sign a contract, which they may have to do?

Not breaking the bank for Burgess isn't much use if, should the need arise, it must break it for Hampshire but does not.

If Hampshire goes then i will be annoyed.

[markill]

would the Wigan of today be prepared to do what Wigan did in 1983 to sign Edwards in order to get Hampshire to sign a contract, which they may have to do?

Are they allowed to nowadays? Where would a contractual signing on payment come under the salary cap rules?

[Owd Codger]

Back in the day (well 1983 in fact) Wigan paid schoolboy international Shaun Edwards, aged 17 a £35,000 signing on fee.

That would, accounting for inflation, be equivalent to £108,000 today.

Can anyone see Wigan doing that sort of thing now with Hampshire for example if clubs came sniffing?

A special talent of a tender age is spotted, with clubs queueing up to sign the player, will we be in there seriously bidding or and actually doing enough to retain the player?

I have serious doubts we will and it is no use saying we don't know how they will turn out.

We are supposed to have people and scouts who spot young talent and as a club you do what is necessary to secure it in the hope it will pay off down the line. We'd have never have signed Edwards and no doubt many other players who went on to be stars for us if the club had been so risk-averse.

Seems to me Wigan have decided to treat all players the same way wages wise regardless if any of them are clearly far better than the others. If I am right you can expect to lose every junior player of any special ability. Hampshire would be mad to stay here if Wigan won't pay what he is worth (and what he is worth won't be determined by Wigan but the market).

Should a winger be on the same money as say a young stand off, scrum half, hooker, loose forward. For me Hampshire and Williams needs to be locked down 5 years at least. Williams i think already is. Problem is a decent half is tough to come by. We have only produced 1 quality 6 or 7 in the last 10 years and he was a better FB.

It depends on the individual players doesn't it. Should Burgess command a higher wage than say Powell? From what I have seen, yes.

I am not talking about Burgess though but Hampshire and asking would the Wigan of today be prepared to do what Wigan did in 1983 to sign Edwards in order to get Hampshire to sign a contract, which they may have to do?

Not breaking the bank for Burgess isn't much use if, should the need arise, it must break it for Hampshire but does not.

Dave O, Edwards was signed at a time when Rugby League was professional and Union was 'amateur'. I am in no doubt that if Union had been fully professional at that time, Edwards, like a few more prior to 1996 would have defected to Union without hesitation. You only have to look at the number of players from that era who are now involved in Union ie. Edwards, Lydon, Ford, Farrell etc and all because there is now more money in Union than League.

As for Burgess leaving, I am in no doubt that Wigan did their best to keep him but the fact remains that he has set his stall out to go for the lifestyle in Australia in addition to any money. Something which our country cannot provide.

As for Wigan possibly having a large turnover of players every season, it is hardly surprising when clubs in Union and the NRL know that the most famous club in League is renown for having one of the best squads in our game and a abundance of talent in its Academy. A situation which at the end of each season results in a above average turnover because either because in the first team squad, they are replaced by better players from outside or the Academy. In addition, younger players over 18 also have to leave or be on a dual registration as they cannot get regular rugby due to the folly of no longer having reserve teams for fringe players and ex Academy players. The idea of the RFL being that the surplus and better younger players of the big clubs play for the poorer clubs to improve their standard.

[KOOCH]

Feeder club for the NRL? We have lost 3 players one of which has come back so that is 2, I think it's an overreaction at the moment. Don't get me wrong I don't want to lose any players but we have lost 2 it's not a mass exodus!! Wire lost Cooper, are they a feeder club? Stains lost Graham are they? Leeds lost 2 to NZW and Burgess are they? Bradford lost 3 brothers are they? It's a better competition and the best players will leave for it simple as that!!

TBW I know other clubs have lost players to the Nrl and that is a problem in my eyes.The salary cap and the lack of top class comp is always going to be a drain on our game. Players do sometimes return to play in super league but I have an issue with that also.In that I would love for Sam T and Joe to return to us at some point but not at the waning of a career and a few bob.I don't in all honesty blame players for wanting to excell themselves but we the supporters are the losers in all of this.We salivate at the talent on display when these youngsters show such sublime skill only to lose them at an early stage in their careers with us.As for feeder club or clubs.Thats a statement I will stand by because it is not only a problem for us but for the whole of our game.We have little in our game that is attractive keeping players on these shores. It's either make the competiton stronger or up the salary cap. Unfortunately neoither is going to happen in my day.

[DaveO]

would the Wigan of today be prepared to do what Wigan did in 1983 to sign Edwards in order to get Hampshire to sign a contract, which they may have to do?

Are they allowed to nowadays? Where would a contractual signing on payment come under the salary cap rules?

I am on about paying a wage that the player can demand. If say, someone offers Hampshire £90K but Wigan want to treat all young players of his age the same and pay them at most £45K then such talented players will leave.

It is about recognising that some players are better than others (and sometimes exceptionally talented) and in pro sport that means they can command higher wages.

Are Wigan prepared to accept that and pay accordingly? In 1983 they could offer signing on fees and did so for Edwards, today it is about the wages offered in a contract and the question is are Wigan prepared to recognise exceptional talent commands higher wages and you have to pay it if you want to sign another Edwards.

I don't think we can expect to hang onto the best young players if the club tries to pay them less than others deem they are worth.

This is also not just an NRL thing because I doubt they are offering young players £250K a year. They have a salary cap as well and pay right up to it so I suspect the kind of wages an NRL side would offer to a young UK player could be matched by a UK club if they wanted to.

[DaveO]

Dave O, Edwards was signed at a time when Rugby League was professional and Union was 'amateur'. I am in no doubt that if Union had been fully professional at that time, Edwards, like a few more prior to 1996 would have defected to Union without hesitation. You only have to look at the number of players from that era who are now involved in Union ie. Edwards, Lydon, Ford, Farrell etc and all because there is now more money in Union than League.

I don't see how that is relevant. In 1983 Wigan were competing with the likes of Wire for Edwards signature. Today it is the NRL clubs who are the main competition.

With young players they simply can't command the type of wages that made it impossible for Wigan to match an offer made to Sam T so what I am saying asking is will Wigan do what is necessary to retain (or sign) young players of exceptional talent when they can actually do so?

This would most likely mean paying someone like Hampshire considerably more than other young players of his generation just as Wigan paid Edwards more than any other 17 year old on its books at the time.

Will it accept it needs to do this or will some self imposed wage structure mean he is allowed to leave?

If it is the latter then I think we are in serious trouble.

[TrueBlueWarrior]

Feeder club for the NRL? We have lost 3 players one of which has come back so that is 2, I think it's an overreaction at the moment. Don't get me wrong I don't want to lose any players but we have lost 2 it's not a mass exodus!! Wire lost Cooper, are they a feeder club? Stains lost Graham are they? Leeds lost 2 to NZW and Burgess are they? Bradford lost 3 brothers are they? It's a better competition and the best players will leave for it simple as that!!

TBW I know other clubs have lost players to the Nrl and that is a problem in my eyes.The salary cap and the lack of top class comp is always going to be a drain on our game. Players do sometimes return to play in super league but I have an issue with that also.In that I would love for Sam T and Joe to return to us at some point but not at the waning of a career and a few bob.I don't in all honesty blame players for wanting to excell themselves but we the supporters are the losers in all of this.We salivate at the talent on display when these youngsters show such sublime skill only to lose them at an early stage in their careers with us.As for feeder club or clubs.Thats a statement I will stand by because it is not only a problem for us but for the whole of our game.We have little in our game that is attractive keeping players on these shores. It's either make the competiton stronger or up the salary cap. Unfortunately neoither is going to happen in my day.

...and there lies the real issue. The incompetency of the RFL to be forward thinking and dynamic in trying to at least maintain a better standard of SL never mind improving it.

[cpwigan]

Dave, we cannot compete with the offers NRL clubs make young players financially. Sydney City offered 4 times the norm in SL to Burdgie and to Ryan Sutton. We managed to keep Sutton but I daresay the reasons we retained him were others rather than pure money.

[cpwigan]

I presume TEW that clubs always have plans like this but also that invariably the plan is rewritten umpteen times and that the end result is often very different owing to numerous factors / changes that occur as X years comes to pass / fruition.

[PaulC]

Ive managed to watch the Fans forum or the 1st half at least on Wigan TV

I looked at the succession list that Radlinski had produced.

I dont know whether this was done to fill a few mins up in his talk, what was every bodies take on this considering we have lost Burgess from next season and what looks like no real replacement for Lockers ?

Budgie we can kind of afford to lose, lockers will be a HUGE loss!