Let's not blame Klein!!

Discuss all things Wigan Warriors. Comments and opinions on all aspects of the club's performance are welcome.
emperorkel
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Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:09 am

Re: Let's not blame Klein!!

Post by emperorkel »

"Cause and effect" ha ha

so it must all be the fault of Kliens dad cause if he had not met his mom Klien would not have reffed the match, or maybe its his grandfather, or great grandfather or his great great grandfather anyone but the incompetent Wigan players and coaching staff.

How many who read or write on this forum are good enough to be SL coaches or to coach GB. None I would, ok very few, suggest.

How many of them know you dont put Feka on the pitch when the team are defending, see how many times Nobles watch says he has to go on.
Matthew
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Re: Let's not blame Klein!!

Post by Matthew »

Does anybody posting on this thread think that Klein had a good game?

Regardless of whether you think that his actions so late in the game cost us the match or not - he again failed to attain the standard expected of a SL referee.

CP - do you think that Catalan would have scored had he not given the knock on at the end? Without the score Wigan would have won; yet you are still saying that it was down to the team that they lost.

It seems to me that some people are happy to accept the referee costing us two league points provided it gives them a chance to voice their dislike of our Coach (again)
"And Martin Offiah, trying to make some space, now then..." - Ray French, Wembley 1994
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Interviewer: So that obviously means that you're not going to St Helens and you're not going to Leeds?

Frano: I don't know why I would ever want to go to St Helens or Leeds
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gillysmyhero
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Re: Let's not blame Klein!!

Post by gillysmyhero »

I do think Klown contributed to us losing the game,but i also believe that we have to look at the players and Noble for the loss as well.To play so well at Leeds, then at times against Catalans so poor and clueless is down to the players and coach not the ref.For me it was a combination of our poor play and Klowns bad decisions.
emperorkel
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:09 am

Re: Let's not blame Klein!!

Post by emperorkel »

Matthew

it depends how you quantify a good game, crtainly for 65 minutes he was a long way from being the worst referee we have had this season. Personally I think the standard of refereeing in SL is poor overall there is not one of them who is totally competent but htey are governed by Cummins who is a jumped up little Hitler who seems intent on ruining the game not realising that this will put him out of a job.

But, there is always a but, you cant just blame a referee for being incompetent (unless he is cheating)without blaming players in your team for incompetence. They train all week to play rugby, they are professional.

So how do you explain the 5 minute spell in the first half when Lockers through a pass wide to Calderwood which arrived at his ankles and was behind him and then in the next set of six through a pass which went out of play or can the team make mistakes and not be criticised.

I love Wigan and I want us to win the SL the play offs, the CC and the world challenge but I dont want us to be the first team to finish top of SL having concede more points than we score.

You cant put a problem right if you dont recognise there is a problem.
Lazy J
Posts: 334
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 4:08 pm

Re: Let's not blame Klein!!

Post by Lazy J »

Matthew wrote:Does anybody posting on this thread think that Klein had a good game?

Regardless of whether you think that his actions so late in the game cost us the match or not - he again failed to attain the standard expected of a SL referee.

CP - do you think that Catalan would have scored had he not given the knock on at the end? Without the score Wigan would have won; yet you are still saying that it was down to the team that they lost.

It seems to me that some people are happy to accept the referee costing us two league points provided it gives them a chance to voice their dislike of our Coach (again)

Klien had a poor game, but that wasnt the reason we lost. we lost the game by two points, Pat missed 2 conversions, and coley gave away a stupid penalty under his own posts in stoppage time at the end of the first half. maybe they were bigger factors on the result than a possible mistake by a ref.

we need to look at the bigger picture, wigan lost because we played some really poor rugby in the last 10 minutes, for whatever reason. Catalans played thier best rugby at the tail end of game and it was good to watch. again it was our poor disipline that helped. we gave away a penalty on the 5th tackle (for foul play not a technical offence) when they were camped in thier half that is so dumb it defies belief, that allowed catalan piggy back out of thier half and set up the position for the try, then through good rugby they isolate calderwood and kick to him again good rugby.

the ref didnt cost us the game, wigans poor disipline and and poor tactics did that. (awaits dave o to disect this post and comment) :)
There are 10 types of people, those who get binary and those who dont!
Matthew
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Re: Let's not blame Klein!!

Post by Matthew »

emperorkel wrote:Matthew

it depends how you quantify a good game, certainly for 65 minutes he was a long way from being the worst referee we have had this season. Personally I think the standard of refereeing in SL is poor overall there is not one of them who is totally competent but htey are governed by Cummins who is a jumped up little Hitler who seems intent on ruining the game not realising that this will put him out of a job.
Completely agree about the standard of refereeing, cummins was an awful ref so putting him in charge completely baffles me. He seems to be obsessed on making changes and leaving his mark on the game - it seems to me that he and the muppets at the RFL are the only ones that don't realise that the mark will be a stain.
emperorkel wrote: But, there is always a but, you cant just blame a referee for being incompetent (unless he is cheating)without blaming players in your team for incompetence. They train all week to play rugby, they are professional.
I can accept that players make mistakes - that is part of supporting the team. If they never made mistakes then we wouldn't be supporters; we'd be followers!

Players have to deal with fatigue and injury in probably the most physically demanding sport around; so mistakes are inevitable. Whilst the referee has to run around the field for 80 minutes - he isn't the one trying to tackling, breaking tackles etc. Don't forget that the refs are full time now - in my opinion this has made them worse - as they are even more arrogant and self-obsessed than they were before.
emperorkel wrote: So how do you explain the 5 minute spell in the first half when Lockers through a pass wide to Calderwood which arrived at his ankles and was behind him and then in the next set of six through a pass which went out of play or can the team make mistakes and not be criticised.
The team do get criticised! Especially on here! However they have absolutely no control over what the ref does (unless you're Briers and spend half the match chirping away). And if the players can be criticised then why not the referees?
emperorkel wrote: I love Wigan and I want us to win the SL the play offs, the CC and the world challenge but I dont want us to be the first team to finish top of SL having concede more points than we score.
Me too
emperorkel wrote: You cant put a problem right if you dont recognise there is a problem.
Mistakes by players are part of the game. How many teams have had a 100% completion rate this season? Even the greatest players to ever play the game made mistakes they would rather forget. Last season against Bradford a pass was palmed on by Newton towards Hape. Calderwood intercepted and went the length of the field to score the match leveling try in one of the most amazing games of RL in modern times.

Klein making mistakes which help a side to score a match winning try do not contribute to the game - just like they didn't when he interfered in the Bradford Leeds game.

The team can work on their "problems"; I am not for a second saying that I am completely pleased with the way that they are currently playing; however there is nothing they can do about terrible calls by incompetent officials.

This is the problem that needs putting right!
"And Martin Offiah, trying to make some space, now then..." - Ray French, Wembley 1994
------------------------------------------------
Interviewer: So that obviously means that you're not going to St Helens and you're not going to Leeds?

Frano: I don't know why I would ever want to go to St Helens or Leeds
------------------------------------------------
GeoffN
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Re: Let's not blame Klein!!

Post by GeoffN »

cpwigan wrote:
Even if he was wrong we overcame a bigger blunder by Ganson at Leeds and won. Oddly or maybe not nobody critised that. Likewise in another sport, Arsenal scored a hand of God goal yet Man Uts went onto win. The referee was not criticised whatsoever. What would have been the reaction had Man Utd lost or drawn.
But that's the whole point! The referee should not affect the result.

If the loss was purely down to players' mistakes then fair enough we deserve to lose, and the players deserve to be critcised (and invariably are!). Those mistakes are under our control, and can be worked on.
The players don't have any control over refereeing errors.

It's not as if we're always blaming the ref for a loss (although we can say he had a poor game). I can't remember the last time the ref was widely blamed for a loss instead of the team: Catalans away two years ago? The Richards "no try" against Wakey away, also 2 years ago? Whatever, they're few and far between.
Matthew
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Re: Let's not blame Klein!!

Post by Matthew »

GeoffN wrote:
cpwigan wrote: It's not as if we're always blaming the ref for a loss (although we can say he had a poor game). I can't remember the last time the ref was widely blamed for a loss instead of the team: Catalans away two years ago? The Richards "no try" against Wakey away, also 2 years ago? Whatever, they're few and far between.
and wasn't klein involved in all those matches? I know that he ref'd the catalan farce which was the season opener - wasn't he the video ref that deemed Richards try shouldn't stand? (only to give a carbon copy a couple of weeks later)

I am sick of the sight of him - I can't remember the last time I watched a match and thought he had a good game. His "performance" on Friday should be the icing on the cake and should see a P45 landing on his doormat
"And Martin Offiah, trying to make some space, now then..." - Ray French, Wembley 1994
------------------------------------------------
Interviewer: So that obviously means that you're not going to St Helens and you're not going to Leeds?

Frano: I don't know why I would ever want to go to St Helens or Leeds
------------------------------------------------
cpwigan
Posts: 31247
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:03 pm

Re: Let's not blame Klein!!

Post by cpwigan »

Matthew wrote:Does anybody posting on this thread think that Klein had a good game?

Regardless of whether you think that his actions so late in the game cost us the match or not - he again failed to attain the standard expected of a SL referee.

CP - do you think that Catalan would have scored had he not given the knock on at the end? Without the score Wigan would have won; yet you are still saying that it was down to the team that they lost.

It seems to me that some people are happy to accept the referee costing us two league points provided it gives them a chance to voice their dislike of our Coach (again)
Yes I think Klein had a good game. Far better than my previous experiences of watching him officiating and therein lies part of the problem. Opinions are clouded by previous efforts.

The problem with the theory that Klein was to blame for the late try is that it does not stand up when you consider the previous week. Leeds definetly knocked on near our line. They got a repeat set on our line and we still stopped them from scoring. So sorry the referee can make a mistake but the team concerned can still prevent it having any effect on the result. Klein maybe got it wrong. It is not clear cut. We still had territorial advantage we still had lots of opportunities thereafter to prevent Catalan scoring.

The last 2 Wigan RLFC matches have been refereed far better than the preceeding matches.

Dislike? Brian Noble is a very likeable man. My own personal belief is that coaches need recent experience DOwn Under otherwise they are disadvantaged. After 3 years in SL, coaches lose touch with the latest developments. Millward is an excellent example. He arrived, introduced flat attack and did very well. He never moved forward from that whereas the NRL did and he lost his advantage as a coach. Brian Noble benefitted from working with Brian Smith/Matthew Elliot and his international experience but it could be argued he is now stagnating. Our attack is certainly dated. McLennan comes from Down Under with good access to the NRL and is doing well with Leeds.

So sorry I like Nobby. I do think he needs to address his weaknesses re attacking. I think the club itself needs to give him far far better backroom expertise. A world class conditioner, a world class sprinting coach, a world class wrestling coach and maybe even an offensive assistant coach.

All the aforementioned would make us a better team and render blaming referees irrelevant. What does not stand up is that people want to disproportionately blame our defeat on one incident involving the referee but not the 80 minutes of play involving our players. Yet, it is that 80 minutes our club has control over.
GeoffN
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Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 1:40 pm

Re: Let's not blame Klein!!

Post by GeoffN »

cpwigan wrote: What does not stand up is that people want to disproportionately blame our defeat on one incident involving the referee but not the 80 minutes of play involving our players. Yet, it is that 80 minutes our club has control over.
It's more than one incident.
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