REPOST: Latest info from my source GOOD and VERY BAD

[Brad5926]

oryt well looks like we is in the sh*t then boys

[standishwarrior]

Mike posted:

Brad5926 posted:
we definatley can't be over like waterside said the RFL cleared us when we signed Stu so we shoudl be ok

TO everyone who reckons we can't get a salary cap deductiong because the rugby league cleared the fielden signing:

Has it not occured to you that the RFL would have cleared the signing given that Wigan made certain undertakings about reducing salaries elsewhere in the rest of the season? Undertakings that it is possible the club were not able to meet? We were desparately trying to offload players after we signed Fielden (we were still trying to do it at the start of this season), loaning players out and releasing them if they found another club. We have no idea if those loan deals were sufficient to offset what must be a very large salary for Fielden. A points deduction is certainly not ruled out because the RFL gave us clearance for a particular signing.

TO everyone who reckons we MO should be sacked if we get a points deduction:

When we recruited Feilden and Noble we were on our way down. MO and Whelan took the decision - bring in personnel and potentially break the cap or potentially be relegated. They chose the first option and then tried to minimise the salary cap damage knowing that it would not affect last season. TO me that was a perfectly good decision in extraordinary circumstances - totally different to a breach cause by bad cap management.

Having said that, the squad we assembled originally was rubbish, so thats bad cap management!

but mike since the cap came in place moris hasnt managed it well! to many players on x amount taking up huge chunks and theres not enough to round for every1 else!please could you tell me who's fault it was that we nearly got relegated last season???imo its doris like.you said the squad weve had has been sh^T.whats happened 2the club isnt just a result of nearly going down last season its been on the cards since 3 or 4 yrs ago when as iv said before we kept changing so many of the squad bringing in new halfbacks every season changing the coach everyseason if we didnt win anything. im sorry but imo its all down to lindsey and thats why i think he has to go!!

[DaveO]

standishwarrior posted:

but mike since the cap came in place moris hasnt managed it well! to many players on x amount taking up huge chunks and theres not enough to round for every1 else!

I'm with Mike one this one regarding last season and a potential deliberate breach of the cap to avoid the drop.

Getting relegated is disastrous for a club. It isn't the sporting humiliation that is the problem. It is all the attendant enforced dismantling of your team.

Put it this way the NL1 salary cap is probably not enough to fund the Wigan junior sides let alone a decent first team squad.

Where I differ from Mike is that the team we had last season before the arrival of Fielden and Dobbo was much better than its league position at the half way point. That includes having Moran on the books. Millward should have got that team to perform better than he did. You just have to look at players like Richards and even DV who were much improved after Noble arrived.

So while not perfect the squad was better than its league position as we saw with the run in.

The trouble is this season it has gone backwards with Logan not replaced and money wasted on Millard and Withers. Now those last two were Nobby signings, not Mo's.

So I don't think you can blame the current state of the team entirely on Mo and his mismanagement of the cap but I would also say if we had to break it to stay up, then so be it.

The only worry I have is that this current team is not capable of dealing with a 4 point deduction the way last seasons dealt with the 2 points we were docked. We would be down on 14 points, only two more than HKR and the HKR coach reckons they need to win 5 games to avoid the drop. If he is right we would need to win four and after today's show I can see that being a real struggle.

Dave

[JIMH]

If wigan get caught with salaray cap problems again, we will be lucky to get away with a 4 point deduction. I'm a wigan fan but i think its disgusting if a team breaks the cap 2 seasons in a row. its a deliberate breaking of the rules. It shouldn't happen

[standishwarrior]

DaveO posted:

standishwarrior posted:

but mike since the cap came in place moris hasnt managed it well! to many players on x amount taking up huge chunks and theres not enough to round for every1 else!

I'm with Mike one this one regarding last season and a potential deliberate breach of the cap to avoid the drop.

Getting relegated is disastrous for a club. It isn't the sporting humiliation that is the problem. It is all the attendant enforced dismantling of your team.

Put it this way the NL1 salary cap is probably not enough to fund the Wigan junior sides let alone a decent first team squad.

Where I differ from Mike is that the team we had last season before the arrival of Fielden and Dobbo was much better than its league position at the half way point. That includes having Moran on the books. Millward should have got that team to perform better than he did. You just have to look at players like Richards and even DV who were much improved after Noble arrived.

So while not perfect the squad was better than its league position as we saw with the run in.

The trouble is this season it has gone backwards with Logan not replaced and money wasted on Millard and Withers. Now those last two were Nobby signings, not Mo's.

So I don't think you can blame the current state of the team entirely on Mo and his mismanagement of the cap but I would also say if we had to break it to stay up, then so be it.

The only worry I have is that this current team is not capable of dealing with a 4 point deduction the way last seasons dealt with the 2 points we were docked. We would be down on 14 points, only two more than HKR and the HKR coach reckons they need to win 5 games to avoid the drop. If he is right we would need to win four and after today's show I can see that being a real struggle.

Dave

thing is dave we shouldnt have ever been in that position reguarding relegation in the first place so im sorry but imo that is down to doris and his managment of the cap!! i disagree reguarding your opinion that the team was much better that its league position at the half way point..wernt we not at the bottom or near the bottom at this stage of the season the table doesnt lie and obviously we wernt that good millward could only work with what he had!!

[cpwigan]

So far everything my source told me has been proven true. The SL Show had a journo on and he said those getting deducted points were top teams rather than bottom teams.

For me something is wrong with our club. I watched Saints last night and thought very nice rugby league. I have watched the likes of Matty Smith, Tyrer, Clough v our kids many times and they are no better than ours. There is nothing special about wat Saints do BUT it requires effort / desire. Effort / desire to run up with the ball carrier so it is 3 or 4 v 13 not 1 v 13 like it is at Wigan. Effort / desire in defence. I see our players onpaper and think they are good enough. OK lacking in areas BUT good enough to make SL have a top 4 instead of a top 3. When Richard Moore runs through you then god helps us. We cannot be okay one week, shocking the next.

[DaveO]

standishwarrior posted:
thing is dave we shouldnt have ever been in that position reguarding relegation in the first place so im sorry but imo that is down to doris and his managment of the cap!!

The reason we ended up in a relegation fight last season was entirely down to the team and coach. On paper it was good enough to be in the top six and as we know from what Radlinski said, Millward blew it and totally lost the dressing room.

i disagree reguarding your opinion that the team was much better that its league position at the half way point..wernt we not at the bottom or near the bottom at this stage of the season the table doesnt lie and obviously we wernt that good millward could only work with what he had!!

We brought in one prop and a scrum half and so if the rest of the team were at the wrong end of the table because they were not good enough then the addition of two players would have made little difference. The other 15 had to play better to get us out of the hole and they did. So they must have been better than their league position in the first half of the season.

Radlinski give us a rare insight into the Millward era and it seems he totally lost the dressing room. Once Nobby arrived players like Orr, Richards and others suddenly found form. The rest of the league must have been glad we missed out on a top six spot because I for one thought we could beat anyone at the end of last season and that with only two players different and a new coach says to me the team was good enough to have done much better.

At the moment the reason we are on 18 points and looking over our shoulder at those below is is down to inept, gutless performances like yesterday and like against HKR at home twice.

Dave

[Alex the Warrior]

I think it was just after last season ended I heard from someone with plenty of connections in the accountancy world that we would be subject to a 4 point deduction this season.

At the time, I used the defence of the RL approving the Fielden transfer, but the 4 point penalty claim seems to be a constant here.

[mike binder]

Mike posted:

Brad5926 posted:
we definatley can't be over like waterside said the RFL cleared us when we signed Stu so we shoudl be ok

TO everyone who reckons we can't get a salary cap deductiong because the rugby league cleared the fielden signing:

Has it not occured to you that the RFL would have cleared the signing given that Wigan made certain undertakings about reducing salaries elsewhere in the rest of the season? Undertakings that it is possible the club were not able to meet? We were desparately trying to offload players after we signed Fielden (we were still trying to do it at the start of this season), loaning players out and releasing them if they found another club. We have no idea if those loan deals were sufficient to offset what must be a very large salary for Fielden. A points deduction is certainly not ruled out because the RFL gave us clearance for a particular signing.

TO everyone who reckons we MO should be sacked if we get a points deduction:

When we recruited Feilden and Noble we were on our way down. MO and Whelan took the decision - bring in personnel and potentially break the cap or potentially be relegated. They chose the first option and then tried to minimise the salary cap damage knowing that it would not affect last season. TO me that was a perfectly good decision in extraordinary circumstances - totally different to a breach cause by bad cap management.

Having said that, the squad we assembled originally was rubbish, so thats bad cap management!

no offence mike but do you agree with CHEATING, if you know you are cheating ,i would soner us gone down and played by the rules than be called a cheat

[DaveO]

mike binder posted:
no offence mike but do you agree with CHEATING, if you know you are cheating ,i would soner us gone down and played by the rules than be called a cheat

Look at this way. For years Wigan have run a full junior set up with U18 and U21 sides. Up until this season their wages all counted on the salary cap.

I'd hazard a guess the total wage bill for that lot would come to quite a bit more than we broke the cap in 2005 and I bet it was in 2006 as well (if we have broken it).

Wakefield on the other hand stick to the rules, have not run full junior set ups failing to fulfil fixtures and instead invested all their cap spend in Kolpak players. They have done this as stated by their chief exec to avoid the drop. Too risky to spend money on young players. They have changed this season with fewer Kolpacks but the team that beat Cas to stay up was full of them.

It is all within the rules so that makes it OK ?????

As mentioned Saints use offshore funds to make the cap go further.

As far as I am concerned avoiding the drop is the paramount concern because of the effect it has on the club with contracts cancelled and the dismantling of the side. The club would probably not be able to run the two junior sides any more because their wages along would take the club close to the Nl1 cap.

If by breaking the cap we avoid the drop then so be it. It just shows how stupidly run this sport is when the consequences of the drop are so severe and clubs can stick in the rules by offering no junior development and by signing overseas players instead.

Dave