RUGBY ON THE DOLE

[butt monkey]

robjoenz posted:
The lesser teams would go to the wall attempting to pay the same salaries that Wigan could afford.

Where is the proof in that statement. Are you suggesting that all the Clubs are run so incompetently that they would willingly "Go Bust" in order to compete. It didn't happen in the past, and isn't likely to happen (if the Salary Cap was removed), either.

Clubs, will always try to "speculate to accumulate", Widnes did that, Oldham did that (to a much lesser degree) and Doncaster have also done it. There is no evidence, that players wages alone, were the sole responsibility for these clubs financial difficulties. More likely that it was down to Maladministration than anything else!

Wigan's problems themselves (in the mid/late 90's), were not purely down to player's wages either. Many other factors have to be taken into account.

[lucky 13]

agree full heartedly with butt monkey can't add to that really :eusa2:

[Mike]

tex posted:
I can not believe how many are being fooled and can not see the real issue.

OK we accept the cap and we have "Welafare State rugby" where the monies from Sky TV and the bigger clubs is handed out to clubs who can not develop their own revenue.

How long before Sky offer less money and the bigger clubs say we have had enough ?.

Faced with this issue what is the RFL response

A. We get off our arses and attract more sponsership so we can pay the clubs more or,

B. We do nothing and cut the amount of money available to all of the clubs, and to put in the begging bowls of the smaller clubs.

The welfare state bred a mindset of the world owes us a living this is now how our sport is being run.

The clubs generating the money are paying heavily to keep the dependant clubs solvent it cant continue.

If this "welfare state rugby" continues thats where our young players will find themselves and where the current RFL board should be (on the dole)

The main component of any sport is competition not an artificaly rigged handicap where sucess is held back to pay for failure to survive.

Wake up to the real issues the RFL needs strong leadership

Hi tex. I guess you're a tory? Survival of the fittest, eh? as long as you and your family are ok, eh? competition is the global panacea, eh?

I'm afraid I don't agree - either in the RL context or in general. Regardless of the merits of your arguement about standards and redistribution of wealth in RL, you forget about the wider context - RL clubs don't just compete against other RL clubs, they compete against football, RU and every other sport/passtime.

The only way RL will survive is to look after its own - not drive them out of business. If all the "lesser" clubs go to the wall trying and failing to comepete with the big 4/5 who will replace them? A new franchise in Leicester that magics 10,000 diehard fans from nowhere maybe, or perhaps a Moscow XIII that discovers a SL standard playing staff overnight. Its not going to happen.

We need to protect what we have and nurture clubs to the point where they are a force to compete with the bigger clubs. They may well have had 100 years, but not in this current climate of fulltime professionalism, some are still coming to terms with it.

A level playing field and a franchise system where the success of all clubs is inextricably is one way forward that has been shown to work.

[jammie]

look after our own don't make me laugh a few years ago leigh wanted to borrow £50,000 to but hilton park outright,they said no,but they waste stupid amounts of money so called developing the game abrord.does anyone remember hussian imbarki he played on the wing for oldham in the 80's,they made him a job as development officer for morroco with a contract of i think it was £120,000 a year.as for the development of our game,they wasted money in gateshead,london, psg etc.let's face facts it always was and always will be a northern game and the top clubs before the salary cap are still the top clubs with it ,just trying to work with ther hands tied behind there backs.why not let the top clubs in sl work free of the salary cap if they opt to and deffer there share of money from the rfl and share it out between the lower clubs with smaller turnovers,and fan bases like st. helens. sorry couldn't help that last comment but it felt good.

[cpwigan]

Mike unfortunately what you describe is no different than what we had in the past, have now and will have in the future. The minority (SL) are quite content to have their cake and eat it whilst the majority (non SL) suffer.

This great RFL has let clubs go to wall from day 1 of its formation. Look at the founder members? Look at how many clubs went out of existence since then. The premier club in St Helens, Recs were allowed to go to the wall.

Where is this heartland? Cumbria? NO Cumbrian clubs in RFL are a relatively modern development. Imagine if we had treated Cumbria with such a lack of vision? London? Streatham and Mitcham? How far do they date back? what happened to them? Wales? Cardiff played professionally in 1951/52.

So is the Geography of RFL as fixed as people like to imagine? Is the permanence of its member clubs so set in stone as people like to imagine? Has this RFL community ever cared about all its members? maybe it should not? maybe it should? Are franchises really about the wider community? is ending relegation and promotion really in the spirit of the games?

[robjoenz]

butt monkey posted:

robjoenz posted:
The lesser teams would go to the wall attempting to pay the same salaries that Wigan could afford.

Where is the proof in that statement. Are you suggesting that all the Clubs are run so incompetently that they would willingly "Go Bust" in order to compete. It didn't happen in the past, and isn't likely to happen (if the Salary Cap was removed), either.

Clubs, will always try to "speculate to accumulate", Widnes did that, Oldham did that (to a much lesser degree) and Doncaster have also done it. There is no evidence, that players wages alone, were the sole responsibility for these clubs financial difficulties. More likely that it was down to Maladministration than anything else!

Wigan's problems themselves (in the mid/late 90's), were not purely down to player's wages either. Many other factors have to be taken into account.

What other factors?

Wages will have a massive part to Wigan being over stretched back when they were winning everything and if it wasn't an issue as you suggest they wouldn't have needed to bring in the salary cap in the first place!

[robjoenz]

butt monkey posted:
The general opinion is, that the standards are falling - not rising though. We ARE further away than ever from being successful on the international stage, where we are judged (by the media), rightly or wrongly, to be a "Real" competition or not.

You cannot provide evidence to the contrary either, just look at the match performances and results internationally for GB in the last 25 years. We were at the closest to beating the mighty Australians when Wigan were at the peak, with no constraints. I watched them!

Just humour me here... but how would removing the salary cap improve the standard of the league? I think what you are trying to say is that clubs would place greater importance with developing homegrown players. However, I think it'd have the opposite effect, clubs on tighter budgets would be trying to pull in as many developed players as they could in order to compete at the detriment to development.

[pedro]

we could attract better athletes who go to other sports, union players and better aussies. Now people dont want to play rugby like they used to as there isnt as much money in it as other sports. Union is picking and choosing who they want also.

[robjoenz]

pedro posted:
we could attract better athletes who go to other sports, union players and better aussies. Now people dont want to play rugby like they used to as there isnt as much money in it as other sports. Union is picking and choosing who they want also.

HOW...

This is the big question, everyone has ideas to improve the game but no method of doing it.

Give players more money... how can every team do that? Where does the money come from? Why do we want more overseas imports?

[mike binder]

scrap the cap it dosnt fit