Wigan Players Keep or Out?

[crookmeister]

Mark Calderwood - out not done enough
Phil Bailey - another season to prove himself
Pat Richards - keep due to kicking but could be better
Trent Barrett - Keep immense for us
Thomas Leuluai - Keep 1 for future
Stuart Fielden - Out we got ripped off
Mick Higham - keep not a bad player decent
Iafeta Paleaaesina - Keep for sure needs to be fitter
Gareth Hock - out for sure useless
Bryan Fletcher - retiring not to bad
Sean O'Loughlin - worst wigan captin in years
David Vaealiki - world class on his day but not showed enough at wigan
Shane Millard - completely awfull
Paul Prescott - keep not bad young lad
Harrison Hansen - keep 1 for future
Darrell Goulding - keep proven centre top lad
Danny Hill - out who is he? rubbish
Mark Flanagan - suppose to be good
Michael McIlorum - very good prospect
Eamon O'Carroll - keep 1 for future
Liam Colbon - not good enough

what do you think ?

[Cruncher]

crookmeister posted:
Mark Calderwood - out not done enough
Phil Bailey - another season to prove himself
Pat Richards - keep due to kicking but could be better
Trent Barrett - Keep immense for us
Thomas Leuluai - Keep 1 for future
Stuart Fielden - Out we got ripped off
Mick Higham - keep not a bad player decent
Iafeta Paleaaesina - Keep for sure needs to be fitter
Gareth Hock - out for sure useless
Bryan Fletcher - retiring not to bad
Sean O'Loughlin - worst wigan captin in years
David Vaealiki - world class on his day but not showed enough at wigan
Shane Millard - completely awfull
Paul Prescott - keep not bad young lad
Harrison Hansen - keep 1 for future
Darrell Goulding - keep proven centre top lad
Danny Hill - out who is he? rubbish
Mark Flanagan - suppose to be good
Michael McIlorum - very good prospect
Eamon O'Carroll - keep 1 for future
Liam Colbon - not good enough

what do you think ?

I think that, due to the contracts system, we'll be lucky to unload more than two. Fletch and DV are both going. Millard may go, assuming he decides to accept Wigan's advice and 'retire'.

As for the others, the only way we can get rid is to sell, and who would be prepared to cough up the sort of cash these players would accept?

Quite a number of lads have blotted their copybook this year, one way or another. But that doesn't mean their Wigan careers are necessarily over. Lockers, I'm sure, will benefit from having the captaincy taken off him, which can surely only be a matter of time. Fielden has not ripped us off, he's being doing the work of three men - he needs at least two big props to help him. If we get them, we may see a very different performance from him. Likewise, we've never seen the best of Calderwood because he hasn't had a decent centre to play off since he's been here. On this same subject, Bailey should be moved to the second-row to see how he fares there, and Richards should be moved back to the wing - this guy can beat anyone in the air, and no sooner do we discover this and find that he's potentially a try-machine, than we move him to another position. That's got to be put right.

The one established player who I feel Wigan's new bosses might seriously consider ejecting is Hock. Potential can only last so long; at some point you have to start realising it, but with Hock this seems as far away as ever. He's had a disastrous season in 2007, the sort that would end a slightly older player's career. Everything he's done has been a mistake, and rumours are rife that he has major off-field problems. Unless the new bosses learn something to convince them that all this is about to change - and what that may be, I can't imagine - I suspect this lad's days in cherry and white are numbered.

To conclude, the Wigan team has been a big disappointment this year. However, the squad has - as Noble has been reminding everyone - been playing two men short. If we can get rid of the dead wood, as described above, replace it with better options (MUCH better options) and then bring in the new additional personnel so that current complacent first-teamers may find themselves on the bench or even dropped from the 18 if they don't produce, then things may start to improve.

[Shevi 4 life]

calders-out runs sideways
richards-keep played well this season
bailey-good second row poor centre keep
barret-keep immense player
leulaui-good one for the future keep
fielden-rough patch atm keep for another yer
higham-good player keep
feka-awesome player needs to be fitter keep
hock-rough patch atm another year
fletcher-played well but we need some younger prospect
lockers-to much pressure give barret captaincy


"The one established player who I feel Wigan's new bosses might seriously consider ejecting is Hock. Potential can only last so long; at some point you have to start realising it, but with Hock this seems as far away as ever. He's had a disastrous season in 2007, the sort that would end a slightly older player's career. Everything he's done has been a mistake, and rumours are rife that he has major off-field problems. Unless the new bosses learn something to convince them that all this is about to change - and what that may be, I can't imagine - I suspect this lad's days in cherry and white are numbered. " - I agree completly, He gives away far to much ball and far to many penalties to make up for any good things he actually does. He may be able to hit the line hard n throw a decent offload, but I doubt you can't find that else where.

[DaveO]

Well lets be realistic because a number of the players have contracts for next year and so are going nowhere unless they agree to the move. Given many are accused of being poor for Wigan why would anyone come if for them?

My views below are based on who I think we will have due to contracts and what I want from them which is in most cases is improvement.

So for me it is as follows:

Mark Calderwood - taken up the extra year on his contract so he will be here. I have no problem with this. Enthusiastic in defence but Wigan must provide him with a centre to get him away for the tries.

Phil Bailey - must go to second row and prove himself there. He has a three year deal so will be with us in 2009 regardless.

Pat Richards - needs to be played on the wing where he is very good. Has taken up the extra year on his contract

Trent Barrett - contracted to us and has been great

Thomas Leuluai - Much improvement required from him. Seen nothing special from him this season at all and so needs to improve to justify his three (or it is four) year deal. Next season he must be MUCH better or it will be "stop Barrett, stop Wigan's attack" once more

Stuart Fielden - If he does not improve with the expected addition of an experienced prop we will have been ripped off so again its down to the club to sort this out and for Fielden to respond to silence the critics

Mick Higham - one of the few who has always given 100% so I am happy if he is here next season

Iafeta Paleaaesina - without the addition of one experienced prop he is a luxury prop so another reason we need another prop. Regardless he is contracted to the club for next season so will be here.

Gareth Hock - contracted to the club for next season so needs to improve a lot. A friend (Bradford fan) said to me on Sunday he and Roby were the only two to come out of the tri-nations with enhanced reputations so what went wrong with Hock? He is either trying too hard or has other problems. I hope it is the former.

Bryan Fletcher - retiring

Sean O'Loughlin - worst Wigan captin in years and not a particularly good lose forward. 30 or 40 tackles a game is not enough from a player in a key position at 13. He has to offer more in the role of a 13 going forward. If he can't because he is too shattered due to all the defence then he needs to move out of the 13 slot. Next season is the last of his current contract I believe and if he plays the same again he would not be a loss to the club if it were not renewed. In 2006 he was given lee way due to returning from injury but he has not improved in 2007 either as a captain or player. After two years it must be obvious to all he is not a leader at this level. It must also be obvious he needs to improve beyond being a tackling machine.

David Vaealiki - not showed enough at Wigan and is leaving

Shane Millard - completely awful and I hope the rumours of retirement are correct. If not we are lumbered with him for another season and Nobby will pick him which is bizarre.

Paul Prescott - keep not bad young lad
Harrison Hansen - had a good season and has improved

Darrell Goulding - contracted for 2008 but needs to work in his defence

Danny Hill - contract up, could be out
Mark Flanagan - suppose to be good
Michael McIlorum - very good prospect
Eamon O'Carroll - keep 1 for future
Liam Colbon - utility back but may want more dosh than Wigan will pay.

So to summarise I am not sure of the contractual status of some of the younger players such as Prescott and Hill so we could see a few move on from their ranks.

Of the established players the only two are guaranteed to leave, Fletcher and DV. The rest even though we might want rid will be here next season.

Of those seven of them have not had good seasons and need to improve and some by quite a bit if we are to improve as a team. Only four out of my list can hold their heads high after this season, Calderwood, Richards, Higham and Barrett and even with Caldwerood it is because he puts the effort in and it isn't his fault he does not score tries as a winger should.

The rest have a lot of questions to answer as to why they have been pretty poor all season.

Dave

[Hawkeye]

DaveO posted:
Well lets be realistic because a number of the players have contracts for next year and so are going nowhere unless they agree to the move. Given many are accused of being poor for Wigan why would anyone come if for them?

My views below are based on who I think we will have due to contracts and what I want from them which is in most cases is improvement.

So for me it is as follows:

Mark Calderwood - taken up the extra year on his contract so he will be here. I have no problem with this. Enthusiastic in defence but Wigan must provide him with a centre to get him away for the tries.

Phil Bailey - must go to second row and prove himself there. He has a three year deal so will be with us in 2009 regardless.

Pat Richards - needs to be played on the wing where he is very good. Has taken up the extra year on his contract

Trent Barrett - contracted to us and has been great

Thomas Leuluai - Much improvement required from him. Seen nothing special from him this season at all and so needs to improve to justify his three (or it is four) year deal. Next season he must be MUCH better or it will be "stop Barrett, stop Wigan's attack" once more

Stuart Fielden - If he does not improve with the expected addition of an experienced prop we will have been ripped off so again its down to the club to sort this out and for Fielden to respond to silence the critics

Mick Higham - one of the few who has always given 100% so I am happy if he is here next season

Iafeta Paleaaesina - without the addition of one experienced prop he is a luxury prop so another reason we need another prop. Regardless he is contracted to the club for next season so will be here.

Gareth Hock - contracted to the club for next season so needs to improve a lot. A friend (Bradford fan) said to me on Sunday he and Roby were the only two to come out of the tri-nations with enhanced reputations so what went wrong with Hock? He is either trying too hard or has other problems. I hope it is the former.

Bryan Fletcher - retiring

Sean O'Loughlin - worst Wigan captin in years and not a particularly good lose forward. 30 or 40 tackles a game is not enough from a player in a key position at 13. He has to offer more in the role of a 13 going forward. If he can't because he is too shattered due to all the defence then he needs to move out of the 13 slot. Next season is the last of his current contract I believe and if he plays the same again he would not be a loss to the club if it were not renewed. In 2006 he was given lee way due to returning from injury but he has not improved in 2007 either as a captain or player. After two years it must be obvious to all he is not a leader at this level. It must also be obvious he needs to improve beyond being a tackling machine.

David Vaealiki - not showed enough at Wigan and is leaving

Shane Millard - completely awful and I hope the rumours of retirement are correct. If not we are lumbered with him for another season and Nobby will pick him which is bizarre.

Paul Prescott - keep not bad young lad
Harrison Hansen - had a good season and has improved

Darrell Goulding - contracted for 2008 but needs to work in his defence

Danny Hill - contract up, could be out
Mark Flanagan - suppose to be good
Michael McIlorum - very good prospect
Eamon O'Carroll - keep 1 for future
Liam Colbon - utility back but may want more dosh than Wigan will pay.

So to summarise I am not sure of the contractual status of some of the younger players such as Prescott and Hill so we could see a few move on from their ranks.

Of the established players the only two are guaranteed to leave, Fletcher and DV. The rest even though we might want rid will be here next season.

Of those seven of them have not had good seasons and need to improve and some by quite a bit if we are to improve as a team. Only four out of my list can hold their heads high after this season, Calderwood, Richards, Higham and Barrett and even with Caldwerood it is because he puts the effort in and it isn't his fault he does not score tries as a winger should.

The rest have a lot of questions to answer as to why they have been pretty poor all season.

Dave

The reason Hock did so well in the tri-nations is that he was away from his Dickhead mates for a good few week. he will never show his true form till he learns. the best thing gaz could do is to move to london or hull somewhere he can get away . because all there doing his holding him back. And before people ask i live near him so i see first hand his "SO CALLED" mates. i really worry for the lad.

[Cruncher]

Hawkeye posted:

DaveO posted:
Well lets be realistic because a number of the players have contracts for next year and so are going nowhere unless they agree to the move. Given many are accused of being poor for Wigan why would anyone come if for them?

My views below are based on who I think we will have due to contracts and what I want from them which is in most cases is improvement.

So for me it is as follows:

Mark Calderwood - taken up the extra year on his contract so he will be here. I have no problem with this. Enthusiastic in defence but Wigan must provide him with a centre to get him away for the tries.

Phil Bailey - must go to second row and prove himself there. He has a three year deal so will be with us in 2009 regardless.

Pat Richards - needs to be played on the wing where he is very good. Has taken up the extra year on his contract

Trent Barrett - contracted to us and has been great

Thomas Leuluai - Much improvement required from him. Seen nothing special from him this season at all and so needs to improve to justify his three (or it is four) year deal. Next season he must be MUCH better or it will be "stop Barrett, stop Wigan's attack" once more

Stuart Fielden - If he does not improve with the expected addition of an experienced prop we will have been ripped off so again its down to the club to sort this out and for Fielden to respond to silence the critics

Mick Higham - one of the few who has always given 100% so I am happy if he is here next season

Iafeta Paleaaesina - without the addition of one experienced prop he is a luxury prop so another reason we need another prop. Regardless he is contracted to the club for next season so will be here.

Gareth Hock - contracted to the club for next season so needs to improve a lot. A friend (Bradford fan) said to me on Sunday he and Roby were the only two to come out of the tri-nations with enhanced reputations so what went wrong with Hock? He is either trying too hard or has other problems. I hope it is the former.

Bryan Fletcher - retiring

Sean O'Loughlin - worst Wigan captin in years and not a particularly good lose forward. 30 or 40 tackles a game is not enough from a player in a key position at 13. He has to offer more in the role of a 13 going forward. If he can't because he is too shattered due to all the defence then he needs to move out of the 13 slot. Next season is the last of his current contract I believe and if he plays the same again he would not be a loss to the club if it were not renewed. In 2006 he was given lee way due to returning from injury but he has not improved in 2007 either as a captain or player. After two years it must be obvious to all he is not a leader at this level. It must also be obvious he needs to improve beyond being a tackling machine.

David Vaealiki - not showed enough at Wigan and is leaving

Shane Millard - completely awful and I hope the rumours of retirement are correct. If not we are lumbered with him for another season and Nobby will pick him which is bizarre.

Paul Prescott - keep not bad young lad
Harrison Hansen - had a good season and has improved

Darrell Goulding - contracted for 2008 but needs to work in his defence

Danny Hill - contract up, could be out
Mark Flanagan - suppose to be good
Michael McIlorum - very good prospect
Eamon O'Carroll - keep 1 for future
Liam Colbon - utility back but may want more dosh than Wigan will pay.

So to summarise I am not sure of the contractual status of some of the younger players such as Prescott and Hill so we could see a few move on from their ranks.

Of the established players the only two are guaranteed to leave, Fletcher and DV. The rest even though we might want rid will be here next season.

Of those seven of them have not had good seasons and need to improve and some by quite a bit if we are to improve as a team. Only four out of my list can hold their heads high after this season, Calderwood, Richards, Higham and Barrett and even with Caldwerood it is because he puts the effort in and it isn't his fault he does not score tries as a winger should.

The rest have a lot of questions to answer as to why they have been pretty poor all season.

Dave

The reason Hock did so well in the tri-nations is that he was away from his Dickhead mates for a good few week. he will never show his true form till he learns. the best thing gaz could do is to move to london or hull somewhere he can get away . because all there doing his holding him back. And before people ask i live near him so i see first hand his "SO CALLED" mates. i really worry for the lad.

Unfortunately, young players being led astray by idiot hangers-on is not unusual in RL. Neither is it unusual for kids who maybe grew up on the wrong side of the tracks to continually be pulled back over there.

However, we're now in a professional age and maybe Hock could use some professional advice. If he's allowing what's going on in his private life to affect his game to the extent that it apparently is, then, IMO, he isn't fulfilling the terms of his contract, which is presumably to play RL for Wigan to the absolute best of his ability. I'm assuming requirements have also been made of him with regard to training, dieting etc - all of which we've heard disturbing stories about.

If what you say is true, the lad needs taking aside and sternly but politely advising that what might once have been a very lucrative career looks like it's going to end before it even starts. So far he is not the player Wigan expected him to be (and know that he can be), and in the age of the cap, that's no use to us at all.

[GeoffN]

DaveO posted:

So to summarise I am not sure of the contractual status of some of the younger players such as Prescott and Hill so we could see a few move on from their ranks.

Hill & Prescott are contracted at least to the end of 2008. Not sure exactly what happened with the "deferred payments" contract extensions, but none of them will have been shortened.

The only players off contract this year are:

Ashton (gone)
Calderwood (has the option of extending, but AFAIK hasn't signed it yet)
Colbon (no news, AFAIK)
Tom Coyle (ditto)
Fletcher (retiring)
DV (no official news, but assumed to be leaving)



Hock is contracted till the end of 2010, as are Fielden, Hansen, Feka & Tomkins.

Barret, Leuluai & Bailey are contracted till the end of 2009.

All the rest are out of contract next year.

Again, as I said, that information doesn't take into account any changes under the "deferred payments" fiasco, which haven't been publicised yet.

[butt monkey]

crookmeister posted:
David Vaealiki - world class on his day but not showed enough at wigan

Never laughed so much in years. What particular day where you on about? He would be sh*te on "Fantasy Island"

[lucky 13]

butt monkey posted:

crookmeister posted:
David Vaealiki - world class on his day but not showed enough at wigan

Never laughed so much in years. What particular day where you on about? He would be sh*te on "Fantasy Island"

[butt monkey]

That's me waving him off at the airport