Which teams do you want in the franchise?

[adrenalinxx]

Personally I don't want to see any teams like Toulouse of Celtic Crusaders in the new franchise, stick with teams who have been in the Super League over the last few years and then if more teams reach franchise level add two more in two years.

The 14 teams I would like to see in the franchise to start off with are:

Bradford Bulls
Castleford Tigers
Catalans Dragons
Harlequins RL
Huddersfield Giants
Hull FC
Hull Kingston Rovers
Leeds Rhinos
Salford City Reds
St Helens
Wakefield Wildcats
Warrington Wolves
Widnes Vikings
Wigan Warriors

[Fraggle]

I'd not lose any sleep if Wakefield were not in there. Nothing against the players or coach, but the club hasn't progressed in terms of infrastructure since they were promoted several years back. This franchising thing is supposed to raise standards and if there are "new" clubs who are better organised than those existing ones then I'd given them a go. Of course, the "Framing the Future" document a few years ago was supposed to do the same thing, and Wakefield would never have got into SL if that had been applied properly, but SL needs to be a modern sport to compete financially with other sports for things like sponsorship, tv rights and the rest. If a South Wales team, for example, have got a realistic business plan that brings more into the sport than ye olde traditionale teams who don't seem to move with the times, then I'm afraid I'd say goodbye to the clubs that are holding the sport back. Wakefield have had years to move things along a bit, and all we have are the same small numbers of fans and those ridiculous-looking holiday home things masquerading as "corporate boxes".

[GeoffN]

Fraggle posted:
I'd not lose any sleep if Wakefield were not in there. Nothing against the players or coach, but the club hasn't progressed in terms of infrastructure since they were promoted several years back. This franchising thing is supposed to raise standards and if there are "new" clubs who are better organised than those existing ones then I'd given them a go. Of course, the "Framing the Future" document a few years ago was supposed to do the same thing, and Wakefield would never have got into SL if that had been applied properly, but SL needs to be a modern sport to compete financially with other sports for things like sponsorship, tv rights and the rest. If a South Wales team, for example, have got a realistic business plan that brings more into the sport than ye olde traditionale teams who don't seem to move with the times, then I'm afraid I'd say goodbye to the clubs that are holding the sport back. Wakefield have had years to move things along a bit, and all we have are the same small numbers of fans and those ridiculous-looking holiday home things masquerading as "corporate boxes".

I read something recently to the effect that the RFL are now in the position of being able to financially help clubs with their grounds etc.

I agree with you, though - the "old" clubs have had a century to improve; if they haven't done so by now, it's time to give others a chance.
I definitely think Crusaders deserve their chance, though less convinced about Toulouse's chances.

[warrior till i die]

GeoffN posted:
I read something recently to the effect that the RFL are now in the position of being able to financially help clubs with their grounds etc.

I agree with you, though - the clubs have had a century to improve; if they haven't done so by now, it's time to give others a chance.
I definitely think Crusaders deserve their chance, though less convinced about Toulouse's chances.

But is that right that the rfl should be able to financially back a club who cannot afford their own ground? I dont think it is. If a club aint in the position to but the plans in place for a new ground in my opinion, no matter who they are they should not be in the franchise. After all one of the objectives of the franchise is to get all the clubs with a plan to the future money wise and player wise in the top division which is a very fair point.
I agree with you Geoff I can see wakefield dropping out and Crusaders, Widnes and Salford coming in. These 3 club deserve it more than wakefield. All 3 of them are building for the future and have good plans in place to improve as a whole. I seriously think that Celtics place is already guarenteed because if the rfl wernt going to bring them in why would millenium magic be running?

[adrenalinxx]

GeoffN posted:

Fraggle posted:
I'd not lose any sleep if Wakefield were not in there. Nothing against the players or coach, but the club hasn't progressed in terms of infrastructure since they were promoted several years back. This franchising thing is supposed to raise standards and if there are "new" clubs who are better organised than those existing ones then I'd given them a go. Of course, the "Framing the Future" document a few years ago was supposed to do the same thing, and Wakefield would never have got into SL if that had been applied properly, but SL needs to be a modern sport to compete financially with other sports for things like sponsorship, tv rights and the rest. If a South Wales team, for example, have got a realistic business plan that brings more into the sport than ye olde traditionale teams who don't seem to move with the times, then I'm afraid I'd say goodbye to the clubs that are holding the sport back. Wakefield have had years to move things along a bit, and all we have are the same small numbers of fans and those ridiculous-looking holiday home things masquerading as "corporate boxes".

I read something recently to the effect that the RFL are now in the position of being able to financially help clubs with their grounds etc.

I agree with you, though - the "old" clubs have had a century to improve; if they haven't done so by now, it's time to give others a chance.
I definitely think Crusaders deserve their chance, though less convinced about Toulouse's chances.

Wakefield are still in the Super League so they must be doing something right to stay there, there attendances have increase, they are planning a new stadium and in terms of trophies they have won the same as Wigan in the past few season.

I wasn't sure about Wakefield being in the 14 either but after thinking about it why do teams like Celtic Crusaders deserve to be in Super League and Wakefield kicked out?

[GeoffN]

warrior till i die posted:

GeoffN posted:
I read something recently to the effect that the RFL are now in the position of being able to financially help clubs with their grounds etc.

But is that right that the rfl should be able to financially back a club who cannot afford their own ground? I dont think it is. If a club aint in the position to but the plans in place for a new ground in my opinion, no matter who they are they should not be in the franchise. After all one of the objectives of the franchise is to get all the clubs with a plan to the future money wise and player wise in the top division which is a very fair point.

here's the story I remembered:

http://www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague ... _Fund.html

The Rugby Football League are to set up a trust fund to help clubs improve their grounds and facilities.

Clubs at all levels of the sport will be able to apply for funding for a variety of projects, including improvements to existing venues and the construction of new facilities.

RFL chief executive Nigel Wood said: "The improved financial environment for the sport means that, for the first time, the RFL will be in position to offer some limited practical help as opposed to merely insisting on minimum standards and leaving clubs to find solutions."

I hope they mean it to apply mainly to clubs outside SL; I agree with you that if SL clubs can't afford to be self-sufficient, they shouldn't be in.

[GeoffN]

adrenalinxx posted:

I wasn't sure about Wakefield being in the 14 either but after thinking about it why do teams like Celtic Crusaders deserve to be in Super League and Wakefield
kicked out?

Two main reasons:
One, as I said, they've had 100 years to get it right, and still not done so. Crusaders have shown both the desire and the ability to improve in a much shorter time. If we were simply sticking to tradition, the League might look something like this:


(just 20 years ago)
Widnes
St Helens
Wigan
Bradford Northern
Leeds
Warrington
Castleford
Halifax
Hull Kingston Rovers
Hull
Salford
Leigh
Swinton
Hunslet

Or this, from just 30 years ago:

Widnes
Bradford Northern
St Helens
Hull Kingston Rovers
Wigan
Salford
Featherstone Rovers
Leeds
Warrington
Castleford
Workington Town
Wakefield Trinity
Hull
New Hunslet
Bramley
Dewsbury

Secondly (although related in a way) is the factor that the "old" clubs are too close together, and thus are naturally limited in catchment area. The Crusaders have not only Bridgend but a big chunk of S. Wales to attract fans from.
Not saying they're guaranteed to succeed, even if they do get in, but I feel they do deserve the chance. Clubs like Wakey have had their chance and blown it, IMO.

[GeoffN]

God posted:
I would like a cumbrian side in the franchise.
Whitehaven.
Workington.
instead of a french side.My 14 would be.

I wouldn't, for much the same reasons I've outlined earlier. They simply can't get the support up there, even if there was some sort of merger (which is about as likely as Hull & HKR merging!). Pity, because I love the area, and the people, and most especially the beer! Jennings Snecklifter (brewed in Cockermouth) is just my favourite beer in the world.

[Fraggle]

God posted:
I would like a cumbrian side in the franchise.
Whitehaven.
Workington.
instead of a french side.My 14 would be.

Leigh (yes leigh)

I've no problem with a Cumbrian team, except that I'm not sure there are enough fans to support an SL team and the other teams that are left. But to have Leigh at the expense of a French team... I don't see that. Unlike the last French experiment, it seems that Catalans Dragons is working as a viable club, they've got a lot more fans that some of the longer-established SL teams have got, they've got tv deals in place, I've not heard of any problems in terms of money, they're doing work to upgrade the stadium again and the French league is still operating well and providing new players for the Superleague team. I don't think Leigh could bring anything like the same benefits to SL as the Dragons are providing at the moment. As GeoffN points out above, one of the problems with the sport at the moment is too many clubs too close together, and unless there is a massive change then Leigh are likely to remain the poor cousins of Wigan, Salford (especially when they move to Barton which is closer to Leigh) and the other clubs in the area. In terms of media interest, potential investment and fanbase, Leigh won't bring in as much as the Dragons.

[FROM A TO B]

I'd kick Hull FC out, as they only got in by stitching up Gateshed Thunder.
Bring in a team from Cumbria