Are our younger fans out of control?

[Mike]

This may be controversial but I've been concerned about this for a while and following the incident after the Wire match I think its time to say something.

I think that a minority of mainly our younger supporters, although undoubtedly passionate about their support for the club, are getting that passion mixed up with aggression towards opposition supporters. I feel they do not understand where the line between banter and down right provocation is. In the past there has been a tradition of forthright debate between opposing fans on the terraces of RL but whenever individuals took that too far and became aggressive their friends and everyone around them would intervene and make it clear that that sort of behaviour is totally unacceptable. I feel like at the moment there is more chance that friends would egg people on than try to calm any situation.

This change in attitude is not only happening at Wigan - the mood in the stands at all grounds is often far more hostile than it has been in recent times - and I think it is partially to do with the segregation that has been introduced by the organisation of new grounds. When you stood side by side with the opposition fans you knew when to stop goading them, rather than shouting and gesticulating at an anonymous mass in another stand.

I think it is every fans duty when they see a fellow supporter crossing that line into aggressive confrontation to let them know that that is not acceptable behaviour for rugby league fans and especially not of Wigan RL supporters. We need to stamp out this (and I hesitate to use the word) hooligan attitude before it has chance to take root.

[jinkin jimmy]

When asking the question are you referring to RL fans from all clubs or just Wigan? IMO I'm sure we have a few undesirables but we are nowhere near as bad as other clubs.

I didn't go to HJ - I have posted elsewhere that I will never visit that ground again purely because of their fans. I watched the game on TV and heard nothing but foul mouthed singing from the Warrington fans for virtually the whole game.

I agree that modern grounds with their segregation could play a part but think that fans' forums (is that a word?) are playing a very large part in causing general unrest. Just look back to our salary cap infringements and the opportunity for fans of all persuasions to join forces in comdemning us. This was simply not possible in years gone by and is a large component in all of the anti-Wigan vitriol that is prevalent at the moment.

[Jimmy Birts]

I think it's harsh to lay this at the door of the 'younger' generation. In terms of going to Wire away I've been going since the mid 80's and it's never been any different. The majority of the crowd that stayed behind at Wire were teenagers or early 20's, nearly all kitted out in replica kits and looking like anything other than your typical hooligan. They provided fantastic support as they do at all games. There was clear provocation from Wire fans in their South Stand and even in our stand from people who looked like they'd turned up with the express purpose of looking for trouble. In fact, our younger element not stayed behind after the game they would have been out on the street at the same time as the Wire element. It could be said therefore that the younger Wigan element actively avoided trouble.

[jinkin jimmy]

The difference between Wire now and then is that there are more of them - sadly!!

[mike binder]

yes staying behind keeps us all out of trouble.i beleive there was a incident were a wigan fan was seriously injured

[Nine]

Hear, hear! Well said, Mike. It’s been bothering me for some time that banter is being replaced by verbal and occasionally physical aggression in a minority of instances.

Frankly, I haven’t felt entirely comfortable with our adopted mantle of a “family-friendly sport” for the past few years. Yes, I’ve defended it to the hilt to the outside world; but on the inside I’ve been worried for quite some time that incidents are getting worse and more frequent – and that, eventually we would get found out and be held to account by a sceptical and frequently anti-rugby league media and outside world. It isn’t a major problem yet but we can’t pretend there isn’t one.

Is it rugby league that is to blame? We are part of society and however much some people would like to pretend otherwise the facts are that standards of public behaviour, including behaviour towards strangers, have changed for the worse.

By that I mean that there has always been the occasional punch-up between blokes who’ve had too much to drink. But the deliberately targeted aggression towards opposition fans (or, more frequently, out side of rugby, towards people minding their own business walking through town on a Friday night) is a newer phenomenon.

It was unthinkable at one time that men would swear violently at, let alone physically threaten, women, the elderly, kids ,etc – trouble tended to be between similar groups of hot-heads. Not great, but at least the rest of us knew where we were.

Now, it’s all on. As an example the verbal abuse my husband and I took on our last trip to the HJ (we didn’t go on Saturday) was unbelievable – and this in the street from people who had been drinking in a local pub and not actually been at the match. We had been walking along talking between ourselves, not even looking at them let along provoking them.

Our sport has a problem. It isn’t just Wigan’s, in fact we all know from experience that some clubs have a much bigger and longer-standing problem – Warrington being the prime example; they had a section of fans that were trouble even in the Central Park days. But we mustn’t hide from the fact that a tiny minority of Wigan fans do embarrass us. And all decent fans must be prepared to speak up when they see it happening.

[the_cow]

i think this is not just a question of the young and rugby...more a widespread problem.

generally, wire are not a nice club-i have been offered a fight by a 40-something wire fan who was walking along with his early teen son after a home game about 2 seasons ago after they had lost against a poor wigan team at the time. i did nothing to provoke other than walk past him. if you look at recent news there has been alot of trouble in warrington with people being killed and the such like- perhaps there are social problems in warrington that have resulted in alot of 'angry' people. same goes for hull. if people are prepared to verbally and physically confront strangers in the street over very little, then rugby gives them a heightened reason to 'have a go' and show how big and brave they are.

i have witnessed on number of occasions old and young jesticualting and swearing towards the away end at the jjb-this does go some way to the idea that seperation of teams gives people a direct target whilst also not allowing fans to socialise, thus the away fans become a faceless mass and not the person stood next to you.

as i have mentioned in other threads i was verbally abused by 2 young drunk couples wearing wigan shirts whilst i was walking towards the jjb down the canal path before the cas home game- just because i was wearing shirt & tie.

i think the heightened level of aggression in society is just reflecting upon rl sadly. personally, i dont think there is much that can be done other than the govt taking strong measures to curb an increasingly splintered and fed up society. banning people from grounds works to some extent, but then unless you bar them from the whole area outside the ground then they can cause trouble before and after the game. people (especially the young) are just using rugby as a medium to vent their anger.

I for one am completely fed up with the way UK society is going. I have been the victim of having 3 bikes damaged (one irrepairably) in the last 9 months when locked up in public places- even though i live in a quiet backwater thats mainly inhabited by old people, so god knows what it is like to live in a 'rough' area of the country. in general, rugby, boxing & other sports can have a part to play in giving people a medium to go and vent some anger IF they actually play the sport and not just go to watch.

I could rant on for ages...but i will stop...

[AlanF]

I agree with most of the comments, I too think the general respect of people for other people (not just the young) is vanishing from society. There has always been trouble at some rugby grounds over the years, but I agree it seems to be getting worse.

I know its another expense but perhaps we need policing back at the stadiums instead of the cheaper options of stewards.

Also perhaps with the introduction of drummer boys into grounds may contribute(I am not saying they are troublemakers)but could this lead to a sort of tribal situation and tends to work crowds up.

Also the Rugby League needs to look at itself because they just pretend crowd violence does not exist. We need to admit there is a growing problem and sort it out before it gets out of hand.

It hasn't taken over our game yet but we do need to keep an eye on this trend

[shawcross da warrior]

i went to the game and stayed behind and was seperated from my mate went to the station with bear and a few of his mates and a couple of girls...

met up with my mate at the train station and heard a wigan fan had been bottled and stabbed dont know if this was true but i heard it off a number of people... :conf:

[Jimmy Birts]

The people labelling those youngsters who take drums and sing as no different than the types who carried out the assault in Warrington are way, way, WAY off the mark. The former group are harmless kids and I applaud the manner in which they support the club week in week out. I've followed Wigan since 1980 and have always stood amongst what you might consider the most vocal element of our support therefore I can say that to suggest we have a hooligan element is laughable. Passionate, yes. Vocal, yes. They may seem a little too boisterous at times but violent hooliganism? Give over.