Let's not blame Klein!!

[DaveO]

PHIL SAYS: .....

Abnybody seen Dave O with his humble pie?

What on earth are you on about now?

Who is "Phil"?

I read all the quote and he does not mention the knock on Klien missed that got them in position to score the try he says Calderwood was not impeded for does he?

Was "Phil" even asked about that?

Dave

[cpwigan]

Phil Clarke = Phil

I have you 3 options. Maybe your English skills are not what they should be

Huddersfield was well documented. Even Phil Clarke mentions it. Check out Rlfans Dear oh dear

Just wave a white flag because all that is happening is that you have a metaphorical bloody nose from your pontificating.

Apologise

[butt monkey]

Matthew if it was a knock on....

]
What do you mean - IF. Are you doubting your own eyes nowadays? Spoken like a true politician (or a poor man's Wenger ). You sound exactly like the footballer, who when asked "did you handball?" He replied "I will have to see on the t.v. replay" (this at a very recent premier league game too).


Even this main crux of everyone's argument (Greenshield's error) was carefully "sidetracked" by Phil Clarke in his dissection of the officiating! Why?

Yet he carefully "plays" with words, adding that "Both Croker and Pelo have their eyes on the ball, not on Calderwood". Well how much closer are we going to observe bodily functions in order to decide the player's original intentions????? This is a totally unprovable statement, by a supposedly knowledgeable person! How often can anyone say where any person is actually looking at any one given moment - yet Clarke is adamant that this is the case for this incident.

He then add to this wordplay with "In the lead-up to Guisset's try, Catalans were awarded a penalty for what appeared to be offside". Appears - they either where offside or they where not. No appears about it! Why the ambiguity?

I have you 3 options. Maybe your English skills are not what they should be

Pot and kettle spring to mind.

Huddersfield was well documented. Even Phil Clarke mentions it. Check out Rlfans Dear oh dear

Read the illustrious rlfans! The greatest source of indefatigable and intelligent information!

Just wave a white flag because all that is happening is that you have a metaphorical bloody nose from your pontificating.

And you have proved absolutely nothing! Just like your simple dislike for Fielden taints the other thread concerning him. Totally disregarding and ignoring anyone's input about his statistics.)

Apologise

Do you think you are still at school? Apologise for having a different opinion to your own - the though of it!!!

[waterside glens]

PHIL SAYS: The recruitment of match officials is a vital part of the growth and development of rugby league in this country. Your question focuses on the highest level of Domestic competition, but it is first worth considering the need for referees at junior, amateur and student level. I often think that some of the people on the sidelines at junior and amateur games that I have witnessed, need to go to their doctors.


Why would any sane or reasonable person verbally abuse a man who is giving up his time for free to officiate a match? What do they honestly think that they are achieving by criticising a referee to the point that he stops doing it? I would like to take this opportunity to remind parents/grandparents/guardians etc of the need to show some respect to the referee, even if he gets it completely wrong.


If we look at the specifics of your question though Matt, I would like to disagree. After watching the match very carefully on DVD (with the advantage of being able to pause, rewind and move forward frame by frame) I cannot agree with you. I do not think that the referee gave a victory to the Catalans. Firstly, the Dragons have lost two games this year in the last minute of the match, and have used that experience to make themselves tougher in the closing stages of games, both when they're in front and when they're behind. We should recognise their improvement as a team in Super League, who like Wigan at Huddersfield, were able to score twice in the last five minutes.


I can only guess which decisions that you were referring to and imagine that one was for the last try. Some Wigan fans claim that Calderwood was taken out in the air. In slow-motion that does not seem to be the case. Both Catalans players appear to be in the air attempting to either catch or tap back the ball. Both Croker and Pelo have their eyes on the ball, not on Calderwood.


In the lead-up to Guisset's try, Catalans were awarded a penalty for what appeared to be offside. I don't think that you could claim this gifted a win to the Dragons. The penalty count ended up with Wigan penalised eight times and Catalan nine. There was one incident mid-way through the second half when a Wigan player was dragged over the sideline. However, we'll look at this on Boots 'n All this week and see that the referee was again correct.


Some people have said that I am still a Wigan fan in the commentary box. Perhaps my answer here will demonstrate that I attempt to provide fair, honest and accurate analysis.

Abnybody seen Dave O with his humble pie?

dave o is a cross between tony blair ,bill clinton and gerry adams
ps thats a joke dave o

[Matthew]

I take it that everyone guessed that it was me that mailed Phil Clarke?

I even sent him a reply...

Matthew sent Phil
Hi Phil

In reply to your reply to my question…

I was referring to the knock-on by Greenshields. Whilst I would understand if you think that I am biased; Sporting Life considered it a knock on also and I would hardly consider them Wigan fans:


http://www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague ... uotes.html

From Sporting Life:

The home side will point to what looked to be a clear knock-on by Clint Greenshields immediately after Guisset's score that would have given Wigan the ball deep in Dragons' territory

Perhaps you should review your DVD!

Secondly Ashley Klein does not give up his time for free. He is a paid employee of the RFL and surely as an employee he is as open to criticism as you or I? I agree with you that verbally abusing (to the point that they need a police escort to leave ground) is both pointless, disrespectful and sets a bad example to younger fans. However after poor performances, fans often feel very frustrated with the referee; especially when a decision costs their team victory. There is very little recourse from Stuart Cummins or the RFL for poor performances and fans feel that the whole process is a closed shop and that their complaints and grievances are ignored. On the rare occasion that Mr Cummins sees fit to comment (as he occasionally does on your employer’s website) he only answers the questions that suit him. Perhaps some sort of rating system should be employed for officials; even if it were behind closed doors? At least then fans could see that referees are analysed and reviewed and do not simply stumble from one incompetent showing to another without penalty.

I still believe that Klein’s officiating is not of a standard befitting Super League. His one game demotion to NL1 after the shambles he made of the Bradford Leeds game last year was little more than a symbolic gesture. I was also very disappointed with his performance in France for Catalans first game in Super League. Even when I watch him referee at other matches as a neutral; I often finish the match with the same opinion of him. I think that the RFL should be looking to bring in new referees; Ben Thaler is in my opinion one of the best referees in Super League; surely there are others that could be promoted? I even think that confirmed Saints fan, Steve Ganson is a better referee than Klein; perhaps this will prove that my feelings are not just because of a couple of poor results Wigan have suffered at his hands. Competition for places at the clubs raises standards; so why shouldn’t the same be true for refereeing in the top flight?

Lastly, I have not heard anyone accuse you of being a Wigan in a very long time. In fact I speak to more people (including supporters of other clubs) who are of the opinion that you side against your old club far too enthusiastically!

Best Regards,

Matt

And cp - do you really want the Cliff Richard of RL to be on the same side as you?

[waterside glens]

just watched calderwoods attempted catch on boots an all and one of the cats players jumped into calderwood with his back turned.It was a big hit but probably enough to make him knock on.Why with seconds left did calderwood not go for the ball at it's highest point and knock it behind for a goal line drop out ,surely this would have won us the game

[DaveO]

Phil Clarke = Phil

Wilkinson? Kinsella? FYI I don't read Clarke's page on Sky sports nor that site much at all.

I have you 3 options. Maybe your English skills are not what they should be

Huddersfield was well documented. Even Phil Clarke mentions it. Check out Rlfans Dear oh dear

The Huddersfield game can be set down in stone for all I care. Whether or not a refs decisions was wrong in the build up to Wigan's winning scores is the pertinent point in that match compared to the Les Cats game which unsurprisingly you ignore.

Just wave a white flag because all that is happening is that you have a metaphorical bloody nose from your pontificating.

You are a deluded if you really think that. You seem to want to score points off people, and insult them.

When this is pointed out to you instead of doing the grown up thing and admitting you overstepped the line and continuing the discussion in a civil manner, you refuse to acknowledge it and act as if you were justified in your choice of language.

You never know when to stop. You were banned from rlfans for repeated sexist remarks (as if you didn't know) and quite rightly so in my opinion compared your previous bans. It seems for a teacher you have a few behavioural problems you should address and thank goodness my son is nowhere near any school you "teach" at.

Apologise

I have nothing to apologise for. You on the other hand do.

It has become clear from the way you respond in this thread you are not worth the effort.

Dave

[gillysmyhero]

:exc:

[butt monkey]

Final word from me.......Ronnie Laughton's reffing on Sunday!

[cpwigan]

You have overstepped the boundaries Dave O and should consider resigning as a moderator of this forum.
This thread was proceeding healthily until you entered. When you did your response was oh I cannot be arsed reading what you have all types. Here is my view, the law of Dave O

“I also have not got time to read this very long thread so apologies if what I am about to write has already been said.”

Immediately you were proven incorrect. The challenge on Calders was fair. Subsequently I have read an explanation on Rlfans.com by a moderator who has watched the DVD of the match and what he says about the knock on makes sense. In his opinion it was not a knock on.

“Having had time to think about it I don't think you can get away from the fact Klien's mistakes led directly to Les Cats points on the board. I am referring to the knock on at the end and Calders being challenged for the try.”

It is all very well to adopt the philosophical approach of "we should have done this, and we should have done that" but at the end of the day Klien's decisions were wrong, not a bit wrong but incompetently wrong and we deserve better than having to dissect yet another performance form the man in the middle. Matches should not be decided in this way.

You do not expect RL players to be perfect yet you do so re referees

“We can beat ourselves up saying we failed in various areas of the game but since then when did any team ever play a perfect game?”

Ever heard of libel. You should take care what you say.

“I do have some issues about the way the game was approached by Wigan and Noble's selections and tactics but despite those we were leading with 5 mins to go and Klien IMO conspired to lose us the match. He ought to be sacked.”

You can even read minds

“He was clearly wrong on the knock on. Even the Les cats player knew that.”

How polite for a moderator

“Absolute complete and utter rubbish.”

Selective amnesia from an anorak like yourself. How convenient.

“How were Hudds robbed? Did the ref give us the means to win the game? I don't recall their coach having a go at the ref whereas ours was not happy with the refs decisions at the end.”


I gave you a choice of 3 option. Nowhere did I say outright that you were a liar. You are a self important arsehole but that is universally agreed

“Dave you are either

1) A liar
2) Totally biased
3) Ignorant”

You attack my capacity professionally beyond these forums

“The above comments are bang out of order.

For a teacher you have a poor grasp of grammar. I said

"I don't recall their coach having a go...."

I guess that makes me a liar does it?

Had I said "Sharp did not have a go" you might have had a point. I suggest you think before you hit the keyboard next time.

Even then you would be playing semantics because I was referring to Sharp complaining about the tries we scored to win the game and given the context of this discussion I thought that was obvious.
There is just no need for language like that on here and posting that such language is out of order as I did is not sidetracking the discussion.

I am quite clear in what I meant that there was no complaint from Sharp about a decision in the build up to those two ties we scored to win the game at the death whereas there was an issue last Friday.

The fact Sharp was upset about the way the rest of the game was refereed is not relevant.”
So it only matters at the end how a referee officiates
“When this is pointed out to you instead of doing the grown up thing and admitting you overstepped the line and continuing the discussion in a civil manner, you refuse to acknowledge it and act as if you were justified in your choice of language.”

No you overstepped the mark and you are supposedly a moderator

“You never know when to stop. You were banned from rlfans for repeated sexist remarks (as if you didn't know) and quite rightly so in my opinion compared your previous bans. It seems for a teacher you have a few behavioural problems you should address and thank goodness my son is nowhere near any school you "teach" at.”

Ask the females on this forum if I am sexist. There are more here than on Rlfans. You will find I treat every woman here in an exemplary manner. I upset a poster on rlfans who is part of the clique who moderate the Wigan forum. She is not a particularly nice person. She abused me so I threw a couple of throw away remarks at her to wind her up. It worked. Why are you even mentioning that on here. You also infer I am a liar. Thankyou. I just created a post for the sake of it. Are you a fortune teller when you are not working?

Again a personal attack on me in my capacity outside of these forums

“It seems for a teacher you have a few behavioural problems you should address and thank goodness my son is nowhere near any school you "teach" at.”

You need to apologise, hope that Ashley Klein does not see what you typed and resign from these forums. Read what the professionals and qualified referees etc have said before you pass judgements

I am on a break for a few days. So I will not be replying until next week.