Second Swoop for Brough

[MrDave]

Heard that Ian Lenagan is planning take advantage of Brough being on World Cup duty in Australia to make a second offer to tempt Brough to Wigan.

Wigan have tried to sign Brough before but have been rejected and had given up trying to sign him until circumstances have forced Lenagan to look to the home nations for new players. Lenagan also looking to snap up a few 'unknown players' who impress during the world cup.

Source is about 50/50 on these things.

[lucky 13]

Heard that Ian Lenagan is planning take advantage of Brough being on World Cup duty in Australia to make a second offer to tempt Brough to Wigan.

Wigan have tried to sign Brough before but have been rejected and had given up trying to sign him until circumstances have forced Lenagan to look to the home nations for new players. Lenagan also looking to snap up a few 'unknown players' who impress during the world cup.

Source is about 50/50 on these things.

Why would he need to look at home grown players the ''quota''is now a non existent phrase in SL we can bring in another 4 over seas players at least think he may gamble on a Tongan or Samoan ect but we may see at least one more good player to come in hope it's a prop or stand off.

[MrDave]

Why would he need to look at home grown players the ''quota''is now a non existent phrase in SL we can bring in another 4 over seas players at least think he may gamble on a Tongan or Samoan ect but we may see at least one more good player to come in hope it's a prop or stand off.

The quota still exists but include home grown players now as well. For 2009 clubs are allowed 8 overseas trained players so far they are:
1. Richards
2. Carmont
3. Paleaaesina
4. Bailey
5. Phelps
6. Smith
7. Riddell
??8. Roberts???

So the player trained overseas quota is almost full so if Wigan do sign Roberts they can't sign any players from Tonga or Samoa. Wigan will also need 11 UK-trained players and 6 home-grown players for 2009.

[lucky 13]

Why would he need to look at home grown players the ''quota''is now a non existent phrase in SL we can bring in another 4 over seas players at least think he may gamble on a Tongan or Samoan ect but we may see at least one more good player to come in hope it's a prop or stand off.

The quota still exists but include home grown players now as well. For 2009 clubs are allowed 8 overseas trained players so far they are:
1. Richards
2. Carmont
3. Paleaaesina
4. Bailey
5. Phelps
6. Smith
7. Riddell
??8. Roberts???

So the player trained overseas quota is almost full so if Wigan do sign Roberts they can't sign any players from Tonga or Samoa. Wigan will also need 11 UK-trained players and 6 home-grown players for 2009.

Latest as I read it is Richards Fekka Baily and Carmont where signed before 2008 deadline date so are now classed as fed trained so we only have four and so could make another 4 overseas signings a joke Iknow but it's basically because any player who signed before the rules came into place could if released for quota reasons take the RL to court and they would not have a leg to stand on the quota does not exist as such any more.

[lucky 13]

Oh yes and why would we want Brough a scrum half we already have Lulu and Smith both better 7's than him in my opinion Tomkins is our best true stand off but without game time at the top level hope no truth in this one, seems a mad move if true but seeing the above re over seas cant see it.

[DaveO]

The quota still exists but include home grown players now as well. For 2009 clubs are allowed 8 overseas trained players so far they are:
1. Richards
2. Carmont
3. Paleaaesina
4. Bailey
5. Phelps
6. Smith
7. Riddell
??8. Roberts???

So the player trained overseas quota is almost full so if Wigan do sign Roberts they can't sign any players from Tonga or Samoa. Wigan will also need 11 UK-trained players and 6 home-grown players for 2009.

Not trying to be rude but the above is completely wrong.

As of 2008 there is no such thing as an overseas quota.

I am not joking, that is a fact and you can read the RFL rules for yourself (available on RFL web site) and you will not find a thing about an overseas quota.

What there is instead are some rules that say you are limited to how many non-club trained and non-federation trained players you can employ.

So what's the difference?

Well to illustrate by example, in the unlikely event of me signing for Wigan tomorrow I would not qualify as club trained or federation trained because I was not an academy junior of a federated club.

So any player who, like me, would not qualify as club or federation trained falls into that bucket of 8 players the club is allowed to have who are not club or federation trained. It does not matter where they come from.

I would certainly not be an overseas player would I?

What has changed as of this week is what constitutes a federation trained player. The RFL have compromised and said any player who was here before the club trained player rule came in is now classed as Federation trained. The club trained rules came in as of Feb 2008.

So any player signed by Wigan prior to 1st of Feb 2008 is classed as federation trained.

By my understanding of when we signed our non-club trained players the only ones who were signed after that date are Riddell, Phelps, Smith and now Roberts.

So since we can have 8 such players for 2009 then we could sign four more non-federation trained players. Where those players come from is not relevant.

Dave

[MrDave]

Sorry I must be out of date with the rules, I was going off the super league website: http://www.superleague.co.uk/page.php?id=346

And this definition from the RFL rules February 2008.

‘Federation Trained Player’: a player who, for any 3 full Seasons before the end
of the Season in which he ceases to be eligible by age for Academy rugby
league has been on one of the Club’s register or the register of another Club
being a member of the same rugby league federation. For the avoidance of doubt
if a player moves from one club’s register to another club’s register and there is a
period of no more than 28 days in the Season (as defined) and any amount of
the period between the 1 December and the day of the first League Match,
Representative Match or Cup Tie (whichever is sooner) between being removed
from one register and being registered with another club, consecutivity shall not
be broken for the purposes of this clause.

Under that rules a player is only federation trained if he was registered in a European team for three years before the age of 21.

[Glynola]

Heard that Ian Lenagan is planning take advantage of Brough being on World Cup duty in Australia to make a second offer to tempt Brough to Wigan.

Wigan have tried to sign Brough before but have been rejected and had given up trying to sign him until circumstances have forced Lenagan to look to the home nations for new players. Lenagan also looking to snap up a few 'unknown players' who impress during the world cup.

Source is about 50/50 on these things.

How can a source by 50-50 on such specific rumours?

So this sounds like rubbish to me!

The only further signing (after Roberts) will be a prop.

[ancientnloyal]

Where would Brough play though?

for 1 or 2 seasons he'd be a good signing though if we didnt have ther players we already do have.
We need more beef in the pack, I predict like mentioned, a samoan, tongan, etc bulky prop to be signed.

[DaveO]

Sorry I must be out of date with the rules, I was going off the super league website: http://www.superleague.co.uk/page.php?id=346

And this definition from the RFL rules February 2008.

‘Federation Trained Player’: a player who, for any 3 full Seasons before the end
of the Season in which he ceases to be eligible by age for Academy rugby
league has been on one of the Club’s register or the register of another Club
being a member of the same rugby league federation. For the avoidance of doubt
if a player moves from one club’s register to another club’s register and there is a
period of no more than 28 days in the Season (as defined) and any amount of
the period between the 1 December and the day of the first League Match,
Representative Match or Cup Tie (whichever is sooner) between being removed
from one register and being registered with another club, consecutivity shall not
be broken for the purposes of this clause.

Under that rules a player is only federation trained if he was registered in a European team for three years before the age of 21.

Well I am glad to see someone else bothers to read the rules :eusa2:

What you quoted above is still in the rules on the web site. They are the original definitions used when the rules first came in. Since then there have been a series of compromises made by the RFL.

It all started when Finnigan and Bradford threatened legal action about him not being classed as club or federation trained. I can't remember on what basis they were going to challenge the rules but they were and when faced with this the RFL changes the above definition and/or gave some sort of dispensation. When they did this it meant TL also got federation status.

The latest compromise came out on Sunday in a press release from the RFL (I get them as I am a mod on rlfans). It says this:

"Super League Clubs agree extension to exemption of club trained rules

After consultation with engage Super League clubs at this week's end of season meeting, the RFL board has approved an extension to a recent exemption to the club trained rules.

At the meeting held in Harrogate, engage Super League clubs unanimously agreed that the club trained rules should remain and that a number of players registered in the competition prior to the adoption of the club trained rules should count as federation trained players."

Which means any player register with a club before 1st Sept 2008 is now considered federation trained.

I expect the operation rules you (and I) have been reading will be updated prior to the start of next season. It seems the RFL "year" as far as the competition goes starts on 1st Feb and so that is when any new rules and regulations come in. So I expect the documents to their site to be updated for 1st Feb 2009.

Dave