'New Breed' - what happend

[THE 18th Man]

what hurts me is i remember in 2003 when we beat saints with are young lads and hardly any of them are at the club

also does anyone remeber in a 2003 program a centre poster that had on one side gareth hock and luke robinson on the other side we had sean briscoe kevin brown and in the middle sean o'loghlin and just in the centre it says 'new breed' 5 years on the so called 'new breed' has nearly disbannded

Sean Briscoe - got rid of him because we thought Rads was gonna last forever

Luke Robinson - guided by adrian lam and looked promising and we prob wouldnt even need tommy or tim and then we got rid of him

Kevin Brown - he looked like one of the best young stars and proved it then we got rid of him

i dont think he was on the poster but lets not forget Danny Tickle

what i believe the turning point was when at the end of the 2003 or 2004 season we got rid of 13 players inc. cassidy, o'conner, lam and farrell. we have never recoverd from that lack of leadership.

im not saying this sqaud will do nothing because anyone can beat anyone on the day however we dont have a new breed, ok we have Joel T, Darrell G, Mike M and others but they dont have the same feeling of promise like the 'New Breed' did when in 03 we picked 5 players called them the future and they are playing great now but they are not playing for wigan bar two

the only new breed for me with the same promise as '03 is Sam Tompkins and that is so sad that wigan have got rid of experience and youth and are left with doubt and embarressment on derby day.

im not having a typical rant and writing them off before the season starts however there is somthing missing that needs filling soon and this three year franchise is make or break time

[Bear]

Great Post. Especially the bit about the lack of leadership. I agree with exactly what you are saying. All the positions you mentioned we lack in. Full back, look at briscoe, the best FB in the league IMO bar webb. Luke Robinson, a talented fast leader. The only one who was a doubt in my book was Brown. He seems to be doing well at huddersfield, but they arnt as good a side as what we are.

Ok the players you mentioned ie, Cassidy, o'connor, farrell are irreplacable. (sp).

I dont think the post you made should be seen as a lack of confidence for our youngesters, but a warning to the club not to let them go and bare with them.

[markill]

Sean Briscoe - got rid of him because we thought Rads was gonna last forever

Luke Robinson - guided by adrian lam and looked promising and we prob wouldnt even need tommy or tim and then we got rid of him

Kevin Brown - he looked like one of the best young stars and proved it then we got rid of him

i dont think he was on the poster but lets not forget Danny Tickle

I don't necessarily disagree with what you are saying, and you missed the player out of that group coming through together that i think is the best player now - Steven Wild

However, i would point out that none of these players has gone on to have distinguished representative careers. Ok, a couple of GB caps between them and a few England A caps but the two who've played the most for GB are still with us.

Personally i never rated kevin brown and never thought he was top level. we remember him for one game, only because stevo was all over him afterwards, even though the whole team that day were outstanding (lets not forget brown only got stevo's vote for MoM, he didn't win the main one).

How much flack did tickle get his last year with us too!? and deservedly so, although i liked him prior to that and thought he could turn in round...but you think he is better than tomkins? i don't.

Briscoe was a massive error, but he wanted first team. he should've been loaned not sold, but he was too good for a back-up salary really.

I'm still not convinced by robinson, and i still feel there must have been something in the background meaning he had to go. but i don't think he is better than tommy and i think tomkins might be better than him too.

there are others who left before they hit their prime and are in SL now like hodgson, sculthorpe and jones, and players like beswick and coyle who may well be good enough to be in SL. Lest we forget Ashton.

We do need to stop loosing such a high proportion of talent that comes through though, you are spot on there!

[THE 18th Man]

Sean Briscoe - got rid of him because we thought Rads was gonna last forever

Luke Robinson - guided by adrian lam and looked promising and we prob wouldnt even need tommy or tim and then we got rid of him

Kevin Brown - he looked like one of the best young stars and proved it then we got rid of him

i dont think he was on the poster but lets not forget Danny Tickle

I don't necessarily disagree with what you are saying, and you missed the player out of that group coming through together that i think is the best player now - Steven Wild

However, i would point out that none of these players has gone on to have distinguished representative careers. Ok, a couple of GB caps between them and a few England A caps but the two who've played the most for GB are still with us.

Personally i never rated kevin brown and never thought he was top level. we remember him for one game, only because stevo was all over him afterwards, even though the whole team that day were outstanding (lets not forget brown only got stevo's vote for MoM, he didn't win the main one).

How much flack did tickle get his last year with us too!? and deservedly so, although i liked him prior to that and thought he could turn in round...but you think he is better than tomkins? i don't.

Briscoe was a massive error, but he wanted first team. he should've been loaned not sold, but he was too good for a back-up salary really.

I'm still not convinced by robinson, and i still feel there must have been something in the background meaning he had to go. but i don't think he is better than tommy and i think tomkins might be better than him too.

there are others who left before they hit their prime and are in SL now like hodgson, sculthorpe and jones, and players like beswick and coyle who may well be good enough to be in SL. Lest we forget Ashton.

We do need to stop loosing such a high proportion of talent that comes through though, you are spot on there!

if they were still at wigan they might have improved more than they have done at their new clubs

[markill]

or they might have played less games and been worse...its very hypothetical to throw that in there about a group of players. Way I see it, Tickle and Brown were both in decline when they left us and have improved marginally since

[the_cow]

Kevin Brown was not and never will be top class- he is a lower sl club player at best. He was poor in his last season at Wigan.

Luke Robinson- plenty of potential and was good at Salford-seems to have gone quiet now though that he as at Hudds.

Both of the above are half backs and yet have never had a look in at international level even though we have a shortage in this country of decent halves- is this because they are 'ok' not 'good/excellent'.

Tickle was poor in his last season and if rumour is to be believed, then he had plenty of off field problems that led to him going. Tomkins and Hock are better players.

Beswick and Coyle are only national league standard.

Hodgson was nicknamed dodgy for a reason.

Sculthorpe was error prone and injured alot during his Wigan time if I remember- O' Carroll & Prescott are more solid players if not as skilled. Hargreaves however was not really given a fair roll of the dice.

Briscoe was the one that got away...

[ancientnloyal]

Kevin Brown was not and never will be top class- he is a lower sl club player at best. He was poor in his last season at Wigan.

Luke Robinson- plenty of potential and was good at Salford-seems to have gone quiet now though that he as at Hudds.

Both of the above are half backs and yet have never had a look in at international level even though we have a shortage in this country of decent halves- is this because they are 'ok' not 'good/excellent'.

Tickle was poor in his last season and if rumour is to be believed, then he had plenty of off field problems that led to him going. Tomkins and Hock are better players.

Beswick and Coyle are only national league standard.

Hodgson was nicknamed dodgy for a reason.

Sculthorpe was error prone and injured alot during his Wigan time if I remember- O' Carroll & Prescott are more solid players if not as skilled. Hargreaves however was not really given a fair roll of the dice.

Briscoe was the one that got away...

I would agree with perhaps all of that. It is hard to determine whether or not how good those players would have been if they stayed at Wigan we can only speculate. In some cases the players were dire for us and so they naturally move on, it happens at every club. Sometimes we bring in players and limited oppurtunities arise so a player would naturally want to move to another club for first team chances (robinson). Sometimes we get it wrong (briscoe) but you can never tell how good a player is going to be you need to think in terms of the team, slaary issues, future etc... i'd rather have the development of o'carroll and prescott than keeping a fit sculthorpe.


Sean Long anyone? imagine if he was 1 year younger he'd still be here.

[Dawn O]

I think it was Monie who said a club was very blessed if two players a year came through the academy to play first team at a good level. The only player I regret leaving is Steven Wild none of the others have gone onto bigger things.

Only Hargreves went onto a team of higher calibre.

I think what they did with Joel was spot on - this was a lad whose game was slipping until he went on loan, speaking to someone who knows him they said being at widnes made him realise he never wanted to play NL level again and picked up his game - we are reaping the rewards with him now.

I think more and more home grown players will come through whether coaches like it or not, more so due to salary cap restrictions and the need to have 11 home grown players in the team from 2011. (I think home grown players also have part of the wage not included on the salary cap?)

[markill]

aspinwall is another from the same group who went, wasn't fussed too fussed about losing him either though as goulding and colbon were of the same standard and could be paid less. but the list is long of players we let go in the period between Raper leaving as coach and IL coming in as chairman. Our squad basically turned over 95% (lockers and hock are still around) between 2003 and 2007

of the names noted so far though there are only three i'd have back: Wild, Hargreaves and Briscoe.

Briscoe only left because he couldn't play ahead of radders who at the time had a few years ahead of him until injuries came. Wild and Hargreaves were better than our club thought.

...i nearly forgot ricky bibey! he was something else! was it his debut at salford where he was on the field for a matter of minutes before seing red. i can't remember seeing his useful frame prior to that. My uncle said "he looks big, could be what we need", boy was he not what we needed (still, he has 2 cup winners medals doesn't he!!)

[Dawn O]

i think everyones secret fear is that sam tompkins will end up as longs replacement at stains,playing with a chip on his shoulder against us because he did`nt get a fair crack with us.if that actually happened then i think the fans would fall out with the club bigtime.my worry is while we have so many journeymen in the squad who noble picks regardless of form then short of an injury crisis how do the youngstersget a chance.

I think he knows where he is at or else he would have gone to Wire a while back, as they sent Andrew Johns over to coax him to sign!! Wire have tried twice with very good deals and he has turned them down twice. Saying that there is only so many times he will turn everyone down