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read a lot about certain underperforming players that aren't 'good enough' to play for Wigan. So... according to yourselves, what attributes are required to be a Wigan player? Why is Sam Tomkins good enough? why isnt Mathers?

For incoming players, what do they have to do, in your eyes, to be good enough for this club? Is all this just nonesense or do we have such high standards that we must have players of the calibre to go to wembley 8 times in a row? will be always judge our future by comparing with our Glory Days?

class? skill? loyalty?

Good enough for Wigan? Unselfish, realise that without each team member contributing Wigan cannot dominate; Hate losing, far more important than liking winning. To hate losing drives a player to his limits; Dedication/Desire; Bravery; Mental toughness; Belief; Incredibly strong basic skills with no discernible weakness.

Just to add Wigan is Wigan because from very early in it's creation, Wigan RL teams have played great RL and regularly been successful. There are periods of no success but these end and the new period of success soon begins. The club has always been a leader in innovation and administration / development of RL too.

I would like to add that the name Wigan RL is still held in high esteem in Australia.
People remember the greats like Kenny, Ferguson and Miles playing with great success, i think thats why i find it so hard to take when the club signs drunks, reserve graders and below average players these days.

I don't think it's a case of comparisons to the glory years but we have, as a result of those years and before then, come to expect certain things from any player that pulls on a Wigan shirt.

Rightly or wrongly, we expect players to display certain attributes regardless of their age, position, reputation, injury, background etc. We expect, more so than any other club in my opinion, players to display absolute loyalty and passion, unswerving commitment to their team-mates, dedication and professionalism. We expect them to put their body on the line - was it Shaun Edwards or Dean Bell who said that the only valid excuse for not being in the defensive line was having a broken leg?

Similarly we have come to expect certain attributes/qualities from certian positions (to list just a few):

• full-backs without fear (Radlinski, Hampson)
  fast, agile, strong and confident wingers (Robinson, Gill, Ferguson, Dallas)
  centres with speed, superb hands and strong tackling (Miles, Connolly, Bell)
  clever, confident half-backs who control and dictate the game (Edwards, Lam, Gregory, Barrett)
  fearless, hard-as-iron prop forwards (Skerrett, O'Connor, Smith)
  crafty hookers (Newton, Dermott)
  hard-running, ball-handling, tackle-all-day 2nd rowers (Cassidy, Hock(!), Betts)
  creative, classy and dominant loose forwards (farrell and hanley)

I think that's why, when we see players, like Ainscough and Tomkins displaying the qualities that we have come to expect, we respond to them so well and when we see players not displaying these attributes (Mathers, Tim Smith...I won't go on) we dismiss them as not good enough for Wigan.

I don't know whether it's right or wrong that we should expect all of this from our players but it certainly heaps a whole load of pressure on them! See Fielden's recent comments.

elgrego wrote:I don't think it's a case of comparisons to the glory years but we have, as a result of those years and before then, come to expect certain things from any player that pulls on a Wigan shirt.

Rightly or wrongly, we expect players to display certain attributes regardless of their age, position, reputation, injury, background etc. We expect, more so than any other club in my opinion, players to display absolute loyalty and passion, unswerving commitment to their team-mates, dedication and professionalism. We expect them to put their body on the line - was it Shaun Edwards or Dean Bell who said that the only valid excuse for not being in the defensive line was having a broken leg?

Similarly we have come to expect certain attributes/qualities from certian positions (to list just a few):

• full-backs without fear (Radlinski, Hampson)
  fast, agile, strong and confident wingers (Robinson, Gill, Ferguson, Dallas)
  centres with speed, superb hands and strong tackling (Miles, Connolly, Bell)
  clever, confident half-backs who control and dictate the game (Edwards, Lam, Gregory, Barrett)
  fearless, hard-as-iron prop forwards (Skerrett, O'Connor, Smith)
  crafty hookers (Newton, Dermott)
  hard-running, ball-handling, tackle-all-day 2nd rowers (Cassidy, Hock(!), Betts)
  creative, classy and dominant loose forwards (farrell and hanley)

I think that's why, when we see players, like Ainscough and Tomkins displaying the qualities that we have come to expect, we respond to them so well and when we see players not displaying these attributes (Mathers, Tim Smith...I won't go on) we dismiss them as not good enough for Wigan.

I don't know whether it's right or wrong that we should expect all of this from our players but it certainly heaps a whole load of pressure on them! See Fielden's recent comments.

Excellent post :eusa2:
I do think that the phrase "not good enough for Wigan" is starting to get banded about a bit too much and more frequently than I like. There's an incredibly fine line that a player treads on this site as to whether he has praise heaped on him or whether he is berated. There's also very little patience regarding new signings and settling in.

I would argue the opposite Sutty. Standards / expectations have fallen amongst fans and certainly the club. Wigan = the highest expectations why because Wigan = success. Mediocre, mid table, not capable of winning competitions is fine for some other clubs. It is not for Wigan. Every great Wigan team I have watched had one thing in common. If they played anywhere near their potential they would win. The bigger the match, the better they became.

The moment we accept 2nd best or do not aim to be the best is the moment Wigan RLFC dies and we become an historical artefact like a Hunslet.

Your not famous anymore = Incorrect, under threat? Yes!

there is only 3 things you need

1. be a team player
2. basic rugby skills and knowledge
3. wear the shirt with pride


if you have those you will be a fan favourite

but there is a few players in the squad who lack these at times and thas whats anoying for me

i hope people dont think im taking it too far but Wigan carried rugby league in this country for many many many years.

wigan have won everything under the sun and have had matches against Australia and won. Wigan and there players are inspiration for teams and players around the world and clubs decided to go full time because of the comitment Wigan had to the sport, they decided they wanted that too and so it started. Wigan have always been the best bar a few years and im not asking for the best Wigan just good perfromances and a couple of trophys for the thousands and thousands of fans that watch every week

elgrego wrote:We expect them to put their body on the line - was it Shaun Edwards or Dean Bell who said that the only valid excuse for not being in the defensive line was having a broken leg?

It was John Monie. I think its quoted in the book Blood, Mud and Glory and goes along the lines of if you get injured get onto the wing and just get in the way of the opposition and we will take you off when we can. Something like that.

I think you have hit the nail on the head with Edwards and Bell. Edwards who played in the final at Wembley v Wire with a fractured eye socket he got in the first 10 minutes and Bell who regularly got stitched up by Doctor Zaman and came back on for more. It wasn't just raw ability with these players but a determination bordering on madness that took them to the next level and made them Wigan legends.

Similarly we have come to expect certain attributes/qualities from certian positions (to list just a few):

Correct; the above sort of determination can't make up for lack of skills and physical attributes.

I think that's why, when we see players, like Ainscough and Tomkins displaying the qualities that we have come to expect, we respond to them so well and when we see players not displaying these attributes (Mathers, Tim Smith...I won't go on) we dismiss them as not good enough for Wigan.

Hit the nail on the head.

I don't know whether it's right or wrong that we should expect all of this from our players but it certainly heaps a whole load of pressure on them! See Fielden's recent comments.

It has made me think how you engender such a spirit at the club. Did Mo have some magic way of recognising players of not only the right skills but of the right character? Or did players once they got here develop this or latch onto an ethos that meant they knew anything less was not good enough but instead of wilting under the pressure they decided to go for it?

I would expect players like Fielden to thrive in the sides we are referring to (Edwards, Bell era) not because they had other very skill full players surrounding them but because they had players of the right character surrounding them.

I personally only see on way to get this back at the moment - Edwards for head coach!

Dave