How many league props would survive in union?

[Panchitta Marra]

Found the Graham Lowe quote

"I'm 49, I've had a brain haemorrhage and a triple bypass and I could still go out and play a reasonable game of Rugby Union. But I wouldn't last 30 seconds in Rugby League."

I had that quote on a long list of RL quotes on my signature.
They were removed at Mike's request. Boo Hoo!!!!

[Doveoverdave]

RU has changed beyond comparison in the last 10 years. All of the rules changes bring their game closer to ours. Scrummaging is the big debate in RU at the moment as the southern hemispere teams have started to NOT to name props in their substitutes. Consequently when 1 prop is subbed they have no-contest scrums (sound familiar) that invairably are quicker to set and get the ball back in play.

There is also a great deal LESS kicking than in previous decades and often the ball is recycled into double figures. RL needs to be very wary as I believe their game is encroaching on to ours and the RU seem adept at keeping tradition whilst having the ability to adapt.

League has fallen into the trap of listening to coaches to drive rule changes and this has led to a predictable style of play that leaves little to the imaginatioon for the speccie, unlike RU where they compete for the ball, have a more diverse scoring system and so often the result is in doubt even when a team has been outplayed. Pressure doesn't always mean points ala soccer.

I am a league enthusiast but the myopic posts in this thread fail to see the ever developing game of union is taking the lifeblood away from our shrinking game. We are fitter, faster, stronger, all sounds a bit like northern bigotry.

[DaveO]

RU has changed beyond comparison in the last 10 years. All of the rules changes bring their game closer to ours. Scrummaging is the big debate in RU at the moment as the southern hemispere teams have started to NOT to name props in their substitutes. Consequently when 1 prop is subbed they have no-contest scrums (sound familiar) that invairably are quicker to set and get the ball back in play.

And it is a very big debate because the norther hemisphere sides want none of it. A while back a senior RU doctor came out and said scrums should be uncontested as they are too dangerous given the way the players have developed physically since going pro. He was much derided for his remarks.

There is also a great deal LESS kicking than in previous decades and often the ball is recycled into double figures. RL needs to be very wary as I believe their game is encroaching on to ours and the RU seem adept at keeping tradition whilst having the ability to adapt.

That is a rather sweeping generalisation that is not always true. I have seen a few first class RU games and I was in Dublin for a Leinster v Munster game not so long ago. It was extremely boring as it was a kick-fest and these are two of the top teams in Ireland. The locals seemed to like it but I am sure that was down to rivalry rather then what actually went on down on the pitch.

League has fallen into the trap of listening to coaches to drive rule changes and this has led to a predictable style of play that leaves little to the imaginatioon for the speccie, unlike RU where they compete for the ball, have a more diverse scoring system and so often the result is in doubt even when a team has been outplayed. Pressure doesn't always mean points ala soccer.

The scoring system in RU is rubbish and will remain so until they devalue penalties and drop goals. Games are still won frequently on penalties alone.

I am a league enthusiast but the myopic posts in this thread fail to see the ever developing game of union is taking the lifeblood away from our shrinking game. We are fitter, faster, stronger, all sounds a bit like northern bigotry.

People's opinion is just that so no need to call it northern bigotry. It is certainly true that RU has improved in terms of athleticism but IMO this applies more to some positions more then others the best and most improved being the centres.

Dave

[gpartin]

All props in Yawnion do is pick up and fall to the ground before even getting hit, they do that about 10 times then ship it to the backs who race to the touch line before kicking it. Yawnion is bollocks it is the biggest pile of sh** I have ever seen.

EXACTLY, pick up the ball, drop to the floor, release the ball x10. This is what kick and clappers call recycling the ball and use the 'more phases' argument against League fans. League props make more hard yards per game than Rah Rah props make in a season, there is no comparison.

PS who gives a monkeys about union anyway, why am I even talking about it, it makes me mad.

PPS Jim how long do you think that big fat hairy welsh fella would last in a game of League? You know the one who is considered on of the best forwards in the game and plays for the Lions? He makes Feka look like a decathlete.

[Panchitta Marra]

All props in Yawnion do is pick up and fall to the ground before even getting hit, they do that about 10 times then ship it to the backs who race to the touch line before kicking it. Yawnion is bollocks it is the biggest pile of sh** I have ever seen.

EXACTLY, pick up the ball, drop to the floor, release the ball x10. This is what kick and clappers call recycling the ball and use the 'more phases' argument against League fans. League props make more hard yards per game than Rah Rah props make in a season, there is no comparison.

PS who gives a monkeys about union anyway, why am I even talking about it, it makes me mad.

PPS Jim how long do you think that big fat hairy welsh fella would last in a game of League? You know the one who is considered on of the best forwards in the game and plays for the Lions? He makes Feka look like a decathlete.

:eusa2:
Couldnt have been put any better GP.

The same prop comes off the park at the end of his stint, and his hair doesnt even look out of place.
He has fantastic skill of resting his hand on the next person in the ruck, whilst amazingly, still standing up.
He is a true athlete of Union proportions with immense aggression into the bargain.

[thegimble]

No league prop could compete with an union prop. Its a different role might be called the same but its totally different style and skill.

Props in union are used to control the lift in the line outs, scrummaegin which no league player has an idea how to. in league props dont scrummage they push but thats all as the ball can be passed virtually through the legs of the second row. Scrummaging is a skill that takes years to get right.

Also in union props clears the crap around the ruck and maul something that league props dont. Props in league are more like flankers maybe No8 in union.

It amazes me how blinkered people are. No league prop could play union as theyd bet busted in the scrum. Scrums are lower in union and props have to control the scrum. Basically if a legue prop went into a scrum on an union prop hed get automatically lifted up and then hed put his weight on the hooker which basically dismantles the scrum.

I find peoples replies here at best self serving at worst have to prove that league is better by trying to judge a position of the same name. Its a different role with diffetent skills which most on here has no knowledge in understanding or want to know the difference of so they can knock union again to justify thier own needs.

Lets put it this way id fancy myself up against any league prop in the scrum in an union game when i played union. They might be called the same name but its a different type of player. As for the people that mentioned Dai Young do remember that he came from a different era of union. Ive not seen 1 prop in either code today that could play in the different code. But ive seen a few flankers and No8 that could play league.

I take it by so many replies that hardly anyone else on here is a prop or has even played a decent standard of union. Or are you all so insecure that you feel the need to bash union everytime. Lets be honest union standards has picked up, dont we all say that SL is not as good due to the cap. So by that judgement that so many on here makes its only a matter of time before union and league standards even out.

[thegimble]

Having watched league for a few years now and till enjoying it I was just wondering. The size of props and the amount of work they do before substitution is small compared to union. Union may headhunt for the backs but props should be looked for the other way. Graham is highly rated but I could not see him getting a reserve game in union. Morley and Carvel possibly plus the French props seem to have the determined agression that would be required. The rest seems a bit patsy. The first three tackles on Graham were called surrender. The drive and determination seems to have been sacrifised for a quick play the ball.
Jim

Not so long ago Bradford Bulls entered the top RU sevens competition on a Saturday afternoon.
They had played a Superleague game against Stains the friday night, travelled down to London and played in the Union comp.
My memory of Bulls winning this competion was Phil Vickery, then Englands No1 Prop forward running with a full head of steam.
He was met by Bradfords winger, Tevita Viacona, who hit him in the tackle, carried him 30 yards backwards and dumped him on his arse.
Yes TV was a winger, not a loose, or a prop, a winger.
There is no comparisson as to the strength & fitness levels of a RU prop, with that of their League counterparts.
Never try to kid yourself or other people on this site that there is.

Thats a seven a side game and it kills props. It amazing that you really have no real other evidence apart from that. As when we played Bath in the cross code. Bath scrum was much more solid

[cpwigan]

You seem very insecure Gimble

Your post was correct in that a flanker (southern hemisphere ideally) can make a good League prop and that the comparison of a union prop v a league prop is a bad one. The whole comparison is flawed. If it upsets you tough, union is dire and has been for as long as I have been watching it. The best rugby of any code has been Australian RL. Rugby is about running and passing and tackling or should be whatever the code.

The Southern Hemisphere want to maker Union like League which says it all really.

The following says it all really. I have some fake blood for sale. Doing a roaring trade to Union clubs on ebay

All Blacks coach tired of kicking

Henry believes a balance needs to be found between running and kicking
New Zealand coach Graham Henry has hit out at the increased reliance on kicking in international rugby.

Both Henry and his Australian counterpart Robbie Deans believe too much emphasis is being placed on that side of the game.

Henry said: "The product needs some attention. I guess the product's not too great and that's disappointing.

"We need to think about how we can change the game so it's more enjoyable to play and better to watch."

Deans added: "Particularly when you've got a side like South Africa who are so able to play the game that way.

"They essentially won the World Cup in 2007 without playing."

South Africa have won all three of their Tri-Nations matches so far, relying mostly on the boot of fly-half Morne Steyn and scoring only four tries, to head the table.

Steyn scored a Tri-Nations-record 31 points in his team's second win over the All Blacks, including eight penalties, and added 24 against Australia, including seven penalties and a drop-goal.


606: DEBATE
If New Zealand want any more changes of rules - perhaps go play league

Up-and-Over
Henry said he wants the sport's lawmakers to investigate ways of changing the laws to ensure both running and kicking rugby can be effective.

"I think you can do both", he added.

"We've done both in the past and I can't see why we can't do both in the future.

"I know there's been a bit of an emphasis on kicking and sides not catching particularly well and people are trying to exploit that.

"Maybe if you had a mark every time the ball was kicked in the air, no matter where it was on the pitch, and you could have a scrum back or a free-kick from that mark it may make the game a bit more entertaining.

"We need to think outside the square about how we can change the game so it's more enjoyable to play and better to watch."

Australia, who are bottom of the Tri-Nations table with two defeats from two games, play New Zealand on Saturday, and All Blacks captain Richie McCaw said he expected it to be an open, running game.

"Usually the Australia-All Blacks fixtures are pretty entertaining," he said.

"(Both teams will be) keen to make sure it's a game where there's plenty of quick ball and there's no excuses for not having an entertaining spectacle."

[cpwigan]

Gimble when we played Bath at Union who played the better rugby

[Panchitta Marra]

Having watched league for a few years now and till enjoying it I was just wondering. The size of props and the amount of work they do before substitution is small compared to union. Union may headhunt for the backs but props should be looked for the other way. Graham is highly rated but I could not see him getting a reserve game in union. Morley and Carvel possibly plus the French props seem to have the determined agression that would be required. The rest seems a bit patsy. The first three tackles on Graham were called surrender. The drive and determination seems to have been sacrifised for a quick play the ball.
Jim

Not so long ago Bradford Bulls entered the top RU sevens competition on a Saturday afternoon.
They had played a Superleague game against Stains the friday night, travelled down to London and played in the Union comp.
My memory of Bulls winning this competion was Phil Vickery, then Englands No1 Prop forward running with a full head of steam.
He was met by Bradfords winger, Tevita Viacona, who hit him in the tackle, carried him 30 yards backwards and dumped him on his arse.
Yes TV was a winger, not a loose, or a prop, a winger.
There is no comparisson as to the strength & fitness levels of a RU prop, with that of their League counterparts.
Never try to kid yourself or other people on this site that there is.

Thats a seven a side game and it kills props. It amazing that you really have no real other evidence apart from that. As when we played Bath in the cross code. Bath scrum was much more solid

Your so right Gimble, Seven a-side would kill a union prop, not so much a league prop though, but again, their fitness levels see to that.

As you said on your next thread, there arent many on here who have played a serious level of Union.
Maybe not to your level, but I played for my county on two occasions.
On some weekends I was even asked by my club to play two games in one day.
I found this not a problem.
Flanker was my position in Union, as I was told I could tackle pretty aggressively, and wasnt the slowest on the park.
I can only say that if money was on the table and financial reward was based on my effectiveness on taking on a league prop or a union prop, I would choose not to take on the League prop.
Much more difficult to tackle, plus he would tackle me far more often and harder than his union counterpart could.
As GPartin rightly said, if the curly haired Welsh British Lions international is anything to go by, then put me up for a bit of that. I will gladly take the easy money.
As for you have said Gimble, the Bath union scrum was more stable than the Wigan scrum. The 2 tonnes of wasted Lard ensured that.
I would love to see you up against the likes of Morley, Graham, Peackcock, Carvell, Manu, just to see your true comments after you scrummed down against them, be it a game of Union or League.
I take it you have played League also.
I have.
2 tonnes of lard ensures that.