How many league props would survive in union?

[DaveO]

No league prop could compete with an union prop. Its a different role might be called the same but its totally different style and skill.

Props in union are used to control the lift in the line outs, scrummaegin which no league player has an idea how to. in league props dont scrummage they push but thats all as the ball can be passed virtually through the legs of the second row. Scrummaging is a skill that takes years to get right.

Also in union props clears the crap around the ruck and maul something that league props dont. Props in league are more like flankers maybe No8 in union.

It amazes me how blinkered people are. No league prop could play union as theyd bet busted in the scrum. Scrums are lower in union and props have to control the scrum. Basically if a legue prop went into a scrum on an union prop hed get automatically lifted up and then hed put his weight on the hooker which basically dismantles the scrum.

He would if he wasn't taught how do do it. Are these skills so steeped in mystery they can not be learnt?

My son plays for Chester U16's RU this year and this season is the first time lifting in the line out is introduced. They are therefore having to be taught what to do.

What never ceases to amaze me is the attitude that these skills union props have are viewed as so complex no one from a league background could learn them.

I take it by so many replies that hardly anyone else on here is a prop or has even played a decent standard of union.

I've coached it and as with League, Union skills are taught not inherited! So what I find baffling is the attitude these skills are so complex and mystical a league prop could not pick them up.

However the debate simply isn't just about the set plays but the game as a whole and the points about recycling the ball made by others are IMO generally correct.

I would also say Union as played by the Southern Hemisphere sides at club level can be good to watch because both sides cooperate in which way the game is played. The rules have not changed much but they play the game more in the spirit of RL but that does not hold true in the UK IMO.

Dave

[thegimble]

Gimble when we played Bath at Union who played the better rugby

This thread is about props not who played the best rugby.

[thegimble]

Re: Lifting in the line out (DaveO)

Its completely about timimg and takes a bit of getting used to. And hes been taught at the right age.

Problem most props in league would have is in the scrum. Its no conisidence that the best scrummagers in union are gettting towards 30. Its an ability you learn of the years. Also it takes a prop of a certain size and physic. Whilst league props are better athletes it does not mean youd be a great scrummager. And if a prop cant be of any use in the scrum then hes not going to get into anyside. Scrummaging is more to do with technical ability than anythign else.

Though the arm pit pull is the most destructive weapon you can use. But if your tight head your going to get a butt in the head. But at least youll get the penalty.

On a serious note i think its about time the RFL stepped in and make the scrum an area you can contest the ball rather than a way of restarting the game.

[cpwigan]

Gimble when we played Bath at Union who played the better rugby

This thread is about props not who played the best rugby.

I take it by so many replies that hardly anyone else on here is a prop or has even played a decent standard of union. Or are you all so insecure that you feel the need to bash union everytime. Lets be honest union standards has picked up, dont we all say that SL is not as good due to the cap. So by that judgement that so many on here makes its only a matter of time before union and league standards even out.

So the question still stands or are you afraid to answer it and whilst doing so explain why leading figures in Union are bemoaning how poor the game is and crying out for change?

[slimshady]

[quote="thegimble"]Re: Lifting in the line out (DaveO)

Its completely about timimg and takes a bit of getting used to. And hes been taught at the right age.

Problem most props in league would have is in the scrum. Its no conisidence that the best scrummagers in union are gettting towards 30. Its an ability you learn of the years. Also it takes a prop of a certain size and physic. Whilst league props are better athletes it does not mean youd be a great scrummager. And if a prop cant be of any use in the scrum then hes not going to get into anyside. Scrummaging is more to do with technical ability than anythign else.

What a load of rubbish, Ive played back row, second row and front row all last season and never struggled once. Lifting is off the cue from your second row, when he makes a move to jump you lift its a piece of piss, to say you have to be a specialist is rubbish. Maybe if they spent as much time learning to tackle, catch the ball and pass correctly they would be a more skilfull set of players. You need to stop listening to Tosspot of the decade Stupid Barnes or reading Nigel Starmer-Smith and come to terms with the fact that English rugby onions must successful period was when they used Rugby League coaches and a former Rugby League player to win the world cup, fact!!

[thegimble]

Re: Lifting in the line out (DaveO)

Its completely about timimg and takes a bit of getting used to. And hes been taught at the right age.

Problem most props in league would have is in the scrum. Its no conisidence that the best scrummagers in union are gettting towards 30. Its an ability you learn of the years. Also it takes a prop of a certain size and physic. Whilst league props are better athletes it does not mean youd be a great scrummager. And if a prop cant be of any use in the scrum then hes not going to get into anyside. Scrummaging is more to do with technical ability than anythign else.

What a load of rubbish, Ive played back row, second row and front row all last season and never struggled once. Lifting is off the cue from your second row, when he makes a move to jump you lift its a piece of piss, to say you have to be a specialist is rubbish. Maybe if they spent as much time learning to tackle, catch the ball and pass correctly they would be a more skilfull set of players. You need to stop listening to Tosspot of the decade Stupid Barnes or reading Nigel Starmer-Smith and come to terms with the fact that English rugby onions must successful period was when they used Rugby League coaches and a former Rugby League player to win the world cup, fact!!

That was just something i posted for DaveO.

Surprised to see you play union if you have so little regard for it. You not good enough for league or are you still at Youth level.

[thegimble]

Gimble when we played Bath at Union who played the better rugby

This thread is about props not who played the best rugby.

I take it by so many replies that hardly anyone else on here is a prop or has even played a decent standard of union. Or are you all so insecure that you feel the need to bash union everytime. Lets be honest union standards has picked up, dont we all say that SL is not as good due to the cap. So by that judgement that so many on here makes its only a matter of time before union and league standards even out.

So the question still stands or are you afraid to answer it and whilst doing so explain why leading figures in Union are bemoaning how poor the game is and crying out for change?

Ironically the leading union figure is Graham Henry whos New Zeland side plays the most destructive counter attacking rugby in either code. They thrive on it. Problem in union is that you can commit 3-4 technical penalties in an attempt to slow the game down. Knowing that 9 times out of 10 the side will kick. The problem is in that rule. That rule basically slows the game right down and the South Africans are deadly at it. Henry really needs to stop complaining as his negative tactics against France cost them the world cup.

They have a choice personally if union wants a game with less kicking then the side the scoring system needs to change and the penalising players need to be dome more often with Red Card given not a sin bin. Scorig shouold be the team that scores most tries wins and if the try count is the same then go with the penalties. When you play at a decent standard your actually trained to slow the game down in a number of ways. unless players get penalised they wont. The only way the game will get faster with ball in hand is if a player gets sent off in a game. The experts are not the South Africans but are the open attacking sides that are struggling to break down solid sides down.

On your point its obvious Wigan played the most attacking rugby but as ive stated above its not about the better ball handkling side but its about the most dominanat pack. And that in union wins the day. As you can kill the game by protecting the ball for very long periods something you cant do in league

[cpwigan]

But who wants to watch that rubbish Gimble? I could take a gym freak with no rugby prowess whatsoever and turn him into a Union Prop. There is nothing mysterious about scrummaging. George Graham managed to turn himself into an international Union prop following a stint in League.

If scrummaging, lifting another man upwards, and diving to protect or win the ball (I know your not allowed to dive BTW lol) is what makes a man happy then he is welcome to it.

Union is garbage. It always has been.

[thegimble]

But who wants to watch that rubbish Gimble? I could take a gym freak with no rugby prowess whatsoever and turn him into a Union Prop. There is nothing mysterious about scrummaging. George Graham managed to turn himself into an international Union prop following a stint in League.

If scrummaging, lifting another man upwards, and diving to protect or win the ball (I know your not allowed to dive BTW lol) is what makes a man happy then he is welcome to it.

Union is garbage. It always has been.

If you think there is no mystery about scrummaging then you have no idea to be honest about the scrum area. its not about size or strength. It helps but even a loose head prop and a tight head prop is a different skill and not often do you see a prop been able to switch from the 1 to the next. You might see it at lower standard but not at the higher level. If it does happen its later on in their career. Scrummaging is about technic and adapting it to your opponent.

Do i say i watch it. Last games i watched was during the last world cup 2 years ago. I hardly watch it. Though i played it for a few years.

[thegimble]

Double post sry