How many league props would survive in union?

[slimshady]

Surprised to see you play union if you have so little regard for it. You not good enough for league or are you still at Youth level.

Too old to play Rugby League now so I just play Rugby Onion to vent my aggression on all you toffy nosed public schoolboy types who look down on us workin class, nothin better than smashing some softy walter comin on a drop off and not expecting a forward to have come to defend on a drift defence and then listen him wimper as you ram him into the ground, then whinge on about me being to aggressive and tackling him too hard! Boo fekkin Hoo!

[GeoffN]

On a serious note i think its about time the RFL stepped in and make the scrum an area you can contest the ball rather than a way of restarting the game.

NOOO!

The only thing going for scrums is that it opens up the field a bit more for that one tackle, by getting the forwards out of the way; without that aspect I'd say do away with them altogether and just have a handover.

[cpwigan]

Gimble you make me Of course it is about weight and strength allied to technique. Look at the brute representing SA. The key is to ideally find somebody with that weight/strength but short in stature. Hence why Tom Smith for example was a great scrummaging prop. However, if you think neck / shoulder strength is not critical for a union prop then maybe you know far less than you think. By the way the technique comes from the whole scrum not just the prop. If Union had uncompetitive scrums it would be a far better sport and whatsmore the nature of the props would change dramatically. League props have changed since the sport began. Just remember part of the reason League came about was because those founding League clubs were far too good at Union.

[Panchitta Marra]

Re: Lifting in the line out (DaveO)

Its completely about timimg and takes a bit of getting used to. And hes been taught at the right age.

Problem most props in league would have is in the scrum. Its no conisidence that the best scrummagers in union are gettting towards 30. Its an ability you learn of the years. Also it takes a prop of a certain size and physic. Whilst league props are better athletes it does not mean youd be a great scrummager. And if a prop cant be of any use in the scrum then hes not going to get into anyside. Scrummaging is more to do with technical ability than anythign else.

Though the arm pit pull is the most destructive weapon you can use. But if your tight head your going to get a butt in the head. But at least youll get the penalty.

On a serious note i think its about time the RFL stepped in and make the scrum an area you can contest the ball rather than a way of restarting the game.

Why have scrums to restart a game.
At the end of the sixth tackle, hand the ball over.
Surely its more interesting watching running and passing skills leading to tries than 12 or 16 big lads in a ball fed huddle.

[gpartin]

If Forwards in Union are so good at scrummaging then why have does it take 5 attempts before a scrum is completed and why are so many penalty tries given off scrums. And why are we still talking about Rah Rah?

The last time I played Rugby Union, rather than turning round in attack I passed the ball round the back of a defender to the Winger who ran 50 metres and scored a try. The coach said and I quote "what on earth did you think you were doing Partington? You're not playing bloody League"

Incidentally that was against Sale reserves.

[cpwigan]

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/lea ... gby-codes/

[old hooker]

No league prop could compete with an union prop. Its a different role might be called the same but its totally different style and skill.

Props in union are used to control the lift in the line outs, scrummaegin which no league player has an idea how to. in league props dont scrummage they push but thats all as the ball can be passed virtually through the legs of the second row. Scrummaging is a skill that takes years to get right.

Also in union props clears the crap around the ruck and maul something that league props dont. Props in league are more like flankers maybe No8 in union.

It amazes me how blinkered people are. No league prop could play union as theyd bet busted in the scrum. Scrums are lower in union and props have to control the scrum. Basically if a legue prop went into a scrum on an union prop hed get automatically lifted up and then hed put his weight on the hooker which basically dismantles the scrum.

I find peoples replies here at best self serving at worst have to prove that league is better by trying to judge a position of the same name. Its a different role with diffetent skills which most on here has no knowledge in understanding or want to know the difference of so they can knock union again to justify thier own needs.

Lets put it this way id fancy myself up against any league prop in the scrum in an union game when i played union. They might be called the same name but its a different type of player. As for the people that mentioned Dai Young do remember that he came from a different era of union. Ive not seen 1 prop in either code today that could play in the different code. But ive seen a few flankers and No8 that could play league.

I take it by so many replies that hardly anyone else on here is a prop or has even played a decent standard of union. Or are you all so insecure that you feel the need to bash union everytime. Lets be honest union standards has picked up, dont we all say that SL is not as good due to the cap. So by that judgement that so many on here makes its only a matter of time before union and league standards even out.

RU props are better scrummagers than in RL.As scrums are not contested in league that is a blatantly obvious fact.It does not alter the fact that RU props are fat,and cannot pass tackle or run and would never be able to last a game of league.I think you may also be wrong in your assumptions that no one on here has ever played RU to any decent standard. Perhaps not everyone feels the need to blow their own trumpet to make a point

[Doveoverdave]

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/lea ... gby-codes/

Like it

[thegimble]

Gimble you make me Of course it is about weight and strength allied to technique. Look at the brute representing SA. The key is to ideally find somebody with that weight/strength but short in stature. Hence why Tom Smith for example was a great scrummaging prop. However, if you think neck / shoulder strength is not critical for a union prop then maybe you know far less than you think. By the way the technique comes from the whole scrum not just the prop. If Union had uncompetitive scrums it would be a far better sport and whatsmore the nature of the props would change dramatically. League props have changed since the sport began. Just remember part of the reason League came about was because those founding League clubs were far too good at Union.

I know neck and shoulder strength is important but ive played agaisnt bigger and stronger props than myself only to have a field day in the scrum. The worst type of player to scrum against is a person who is shorter than you. As you cant and i think its the rule since 1997ish you cant have your neck going lower than your hip level. That makes it a lot safer than before. I did like the scrum element of the game as well as the rucks and mauls.

But a scrum in union is a big part of the game but it needs modifiing on the wheeling of the scrum. It needs to go back to the old rule that it can go round over the 180% as that slows the game down more than anything else.

You can get uncompetetive scrum in union think it happened once this season in the six nations no idea which game (dont watch many). Sides usually have 2 replacements props on the bench if 3 out of the 4 gets an injury and cant carry on or if the hooker replacments gets injured, then you get uncompetitive scrums. I once played 40 minutes in a game as we only had 1 sub and he got injured. Its goes against what youve been taught and its a strange way to play.

Scrums are dictated by the from 5 but the 2 props are the biggest element of it. As if you can lift your opposite number his second row will push him up and you can dismantle a scrum especially if you can get his weight to go on the hooker.

[thegimble]

If Forwards in Union are so good at scrummaging then why have does it take 5 attempts before a scrum is completed and why are so many penalty tries given off scrums. And why are we still talking about Rah Rah?

The last time I played Rugby Union, rather than turning round in attack I passed the ball round the back of a defender to the Winger who ran 50 metres and scored a try. The coach said and I quote "what on earth did you think you were doing Partington? You're not playing bloody League"

Incidentally that was against Sale reserves.

Reasons scrums collapse is usually and this annoys the hell out of me is that so much pressure come through both props they can start to angle down and that collapses a scrum. If that happens on 2 occasions your guranteed the ref will blow his whistle and give a pen against the side whos not putting the ball into the scrum. Refs have no idea.

The other main reasons is that a player will pull down on the arm of his opponent to stop himself getting lifted and that is a penalty but refs dont see it.

Your basis of 5 attempts happened often before the new rules. Where sides now have to wait a few seconds before going into each other.