Why are we unable to manage our cap?

[Wigan_forever1985]

Wigan are edging close to the £1.6m ceiling of their salary cap limit and any additional signings would almost certainly require other players to be released, even on loan, to free up cash

That was in the WEP article today. Now if you look at our squad and think of who was classed as a "star" player when we bought them or are classed as a "star" player within the team i can only muster:

Feilden
Gleeson
Lockers
Hock

Now Hock has left, then you have players who came with or have a rep for being a v.good player not a "star" but certainly more than average:

Richards
Bailey
Lulu
Roberts
feka

I thought about putting riddell in there but lets face it he was 2nd choice at eels so i dont think you can class a very good player if they aren't 1st choice in their position.

The rest of the signings no matter how they have played since are average players the likes of coley and carmont were singed as cheap but useful players.

So how in the hell with only 3 Star players can we be close to the salary cap!!, you look at wire, stains and leeds. I know we paid over the odds for Feilden but come on we must be leaking money in these average players to have such a dismal grasp on the salary cap.

i will enjoy 5 mins of grace before DaveO tells me how wrong i am in detail! !lol!

[cpwigan]

My understanding WF is that in part this is an inherited issue. Fielden and Feka particularly Fielden being on absolutely awesome contracts. The issue has been exacerbated with the signing of Gleeson. He was on 150K per season at Wire and signed for 180K per season at Wigan. The issue with Gleeson is that his 180K is not spread equally over his contract and he has been paid relatively little in 2009 but he will be paid far more than 180K for the 2010 season.

When I created the rate our squad thread it was in part the hope that on paper fans would realise how experienced our squad is and that if you take depth we have far better players than other squads in terms of depth given the success of our reserves. Those reserves need paying though. If you do not play them then IMO you are wasting salary cap space as some will count to the cap.

I think Saints and Leeds have shown how the cap works. They both had several young players come through. Young player tend to be on low contracts initially so if they are playing SL on those low contracts it enables you to then spend big on class big names. However, as you gain success and as the young players get new contracts you then have to release ageing players to balance the cap and try to bring a new generation of young players through.

Warrington seem not to do this and I can only assume / hypothesise that they pay young players very little and put all their cap money into big name players.

The problem you get with the cap is when you sign a player for big money and that player does not deliver. So for example, many Wigan fans say we need a prop but whilst they are probably right, Wigan already employ and pay a huge chunk of their salary cap for a player who is meant to deliver what the fans, what the team, club wants and needs. Get your signings wrong under the cap and you really self harm.

I think the key to the IFL and Noble issue is that IFL wants to bring young players through but Noble wants to sign ready made players.

[Wigan_forever1985]

I think the length of contracts is an issue too though. If you are going to put all you eggs in one basket, using fielden as an example again surely 4 years is way to big a gamble on the amount of money your forking out. Why not give 2years with a 1-2 year option if performances match up.

[cpwigan]

I think it is a double edged sword WF. Long contracts are great if the players deliver and you can get the players a tad cheaper by negotiating there and then but as you say get it wrong and that player becomes an almighty millstone.

Fielden IMO is a huge black mark against Noble at Wigan. He could have advised Wigan to go for Burgess or Fielden and yet with insiode knowledge he opted for Fielden at far greater expense to Wigan RLFC.

[BriH]

Just illustrates how difficult it is to get the balance right and keep within the salary cap.
Don't forget IL inherited some of the problems and, to a certain extent, he is stuck with them in the short term.
I'm sure, being a very astute businessman, he will be well on top of this.

[platt-warrior]

I'm not so sure.As i understand it IL has taken it upon himself the position of head scout responsible for the purchase of players.And look what a b111ls-up he's made so far.

[MrDave]

It's a complete miss management of contracts and players by the club, to be fair the problem has its roots from the introduction of the salary cap but it would take years to sort out.

There have been complaints recently that Warrington must be over the cap which is not true at all they are just excellent at managing it.

The best way to deal with the cap is the not over value players, don't have a massive gulf in wages between top and bottom of the club and pick the right players for the squad. All things that Wigan don't do.

[DaveO]

Wigan are edging close to the £1.6m ceiling of their salary cap limit and any additional signings would almost certainly require other players to be released, even on loan, to free up cash

That was in the WEP article today. Now if you look at our squad and think of who was classed as a "star" player when we bought them or are classed as a "star" player within the team i can only muster:

Feilden
Gleeson
Lockers
Hock

Now Hock has left, then you have players who came with or have a rep for being a v.good player not a "star" but certainly more than average:

Richards
Bailey
Lulu
Roberts
feka

I thought about putting riddell in there but lets face it he was 2nd choice at eels so i dont think you can class a very good player if they aren't 1st choice in their position.

The rest of the signings no matter how they have played since are average players the likes of coley and carmont were singed as cheap but useful players.

So how in the hell with only 3 Star players can we be close to the salary cap!!, you look at wire, stains and leeds. I know we paid over the odds for Feilden but come on we must be leaking money in these average players to have such a dismal grasp on the salary cap.

i will enjoy 5 mins of grace before DaveO tells me how wrong i am in detail! !lol!

The only thing I can fault in your logic is that (with Bailey off contract at the end of the season) Feka and Fielden are probably the highest earners due to being signed in the Mo/DW era. So the fact you may consider Feka not a star player still does not mean he will be on a appropriate level of wage.

Every other player on the list is either an IL era signing such as Roberts or was re-signed by IL such as TL. So the theory goes they should all be on and appropriate level of wages.

With only Feka and Fielden being the only ones who may be being overpaid you would think given everyone else is an IL signing we would be lining up a couple of real star names to complement the kids coming through.

Reasons we may not be could be:

Our overseas players ARE being paid star player wages despite being pretty average.

We have upped the wages of so many of the young players there is none left to sign such star players.

Either way and despite Feka and Fieldens wages if we are spending to the cap limit and have a team that is a shadow of the Wire squad (for example) something is not right.

Dave

[shaunedwardsfanclub]

I'm not so sure.As i understand it IL has taken it upon himself the position of head scout responsible for the purchase of players.And look what a b111ls-up he's made so far.

PW - I can assure you that this is not the case. The coach produces his wish list and IL then goes about signing those players. IL also has the right to veto anyone on the list for whatever reason. A couple of examples could be: the player's salary demands are too high; a player has a disruptive influence.

I am led to believe that this happened last year following Noble's insistance that Micky Higham be released. BN's first choice was Tez Newton (Bradford wouldn't deal) the fall back choice was Piggy, who IL delivered. In hindsight Higham could have been replaced by Mike Mac but unfortunately the coaching team did not forsee his 'rapid improvement' (I suggest they watch the reserve team more!)

[shaunedwardsfanclub]

Dave - we have increased the salaries of our younger players, I presume that IL does not wish to see a repeat of the Chris Ashton situation. All our young players on the fast track scheme are also being paid much higher amounts than under the previous regime - this was done to allow the players to become full-time pros and therefore accelerate their development.