what state rugby union ?

[Kiwiseddon]

I've had a no end of RU V RL arguments at work with my mates and given that I'm in Staffordshire, I'm very much in the minority. They'll argue black's white in favour of RU. Well that's their opinion.

All's I'd say is, another mate from work, who was a football fan and has watched any amount of RU on TV came to a RL match with me and stevethegas. Let's put it this way. If you cut him now...he bleeds cherry and white. Says it all really.

[ian b]

And another thing! Can you imagine the look on the face of that arrogant, supercillious, rugby league hating Jeremy Guscot?

He is one of the biggest tits ever to walk on to a rugby pitch albeit union and i remember going to maine road and him not showing for Bath cos he said it was a joke, it was more the case that a certain G Connelly would give him a hiding the great ponce!.

[missyme65]

I was die hard RU till very recently but having been to several Wigan games this year Im a convert and happy to be so, League is a far more powerful and exciting game to watch, leaves union in the shade by miles,and unless they adopt or adapt then union will fall very much by the wayside, although as has been stated there is more chance of hell freezing over and Guscott wearing cherry and white.....

[exile in Tiger country]

Living and working about 15 miles from Welford Road, I still have Leicester Tigers fans telling me that union is a quicker game than league because they have rucks and mauls etc and we stop, regain our feet and play the ball.
I have told them that rucks and mauls are just an excuse for fat ex public school boys to feel each other up (I wonder if Leon the ball tamperer would fancy a game?)
I have pointed out that more tries are scored in one weekend in Superleague than in a month of yawnion games, I have pointed out the huge diffeence in speed and passing skill, and that our forwards target smaller opponents or even, heaven forbid, try to run at a gap instead of running into a similar sized tub of lard and hit the floor.
All to no avail. No hope for some folk.

Never mind, we don't need them, they apparently do need us in some ways.

[Panchitta Marra]

Living and working about 15 miles from Welford Road, I still have Leicester Tigers fans telling me that union is a quicker game than league because they have rucks and mauls etc and we stop, regain our feet and play the ball.
I have told them that rucks and mauls are just an excuse for fat ex public school boys to feel each other up (I wonder if Leon the ball tamperer would fancy a game?)
I have pointed out that more tries are scored in one weekend in Superleague than in a month of yawnion games, I have pointed out the huge diffeence in speed and passing skill, and that our forwards target smaller opponents or even, heaven forbid, try to run at a gap instead of running into a similar sized tub of lard and hit the floor.
All to no avail. No hope for some folk.

Never mind, we don't need them, they apparently do need us in some ways.

It tickles me when the Yawnion commentator says "Its been a very physical game with over 50 tackles made in the first half".
I am sure Shaun O'Loughlin would have a titter at that too.

[stevethegas]

The biggest problem facing Union is that it has assumed a mantle of some moral superiority. Some Northern oiks breaking away to play with their own balls has nothing to do with an arrogant assumption of purity and all that stuff. The facts of course are somewhat at odds with the story with transfer fees and such being paid long before the Northern Union formed.
Union has no moral or sporting superiority over League, in fact quite the reverse.
However, the saddest bit of history is that unimaginative management of the League allowed Twickers to get away with it, and that was our fault.
As for the differences in play, well much has been alluded to above. OPTA shows that the ball is in play almost twice as long in League as Union. Almost every aspect of play (drawing the defender, the cut-out pass, the last ditch tackle etc.) that we love happens more in League, and it's a more honest and straightforward game. England RU have scored one try in the Autumn internationals - enough said.
Almost every innovation tried in Union started in League, and even the FA are looking at some.

Still tell your friends and get more of them to come to the games. Let's fill the stadia and enjoy the greatest game of all!

[slimshady]

I agree, I play union at Wigan because Iam too old for Rl the bias we see because we are "wiganers" has to be seen to be believed, we are labelled because of where we are from and penalised more so because of it. The old farts who run the union at our level look down their noses at us and take great pleasure in punishing us at any opportunity. Some of the Refs are as bad, you know your on a downer when the first words out of his mouth are "I know your all Rugby league lads". But we take great pleasure in knocking the shite out of the Grammar school tosspots at every opportunity.

[DaveO]

As for the differences in play, well much has been alluded to above. OPTA shows that the ball is in play almost twice as long in League as Union.

I think its interesting that the Welsh coach is acknowledging the only way to play international RU is to kick the ball into the opposition half time and again.

Australia scored some nice tries yet kicked 40 times in the match compared to 22 from Wales.

A couple of years ago I went on the "lads and dads" tour of my sons RU side to Dublin. We went to watch Leinster v Munster which is equivalent to Wigan v Saints and it was dire. The number of times the ball was punted from one end of the pitch to the other and then back again was ridiculous.

RU's failure to adopt a 2 point penalty, the need to be extremely careful how the scrum is set and other rules they remain wedded to just slow the game down.

Not so long ago the RFU doctor said it was time to make scrums uncontested as they were now too dangerous given the power of professional players! Sacrilege to the Union purest who insist forward play and its "complexity" is what makes the game what it is.

If they want to make the game more of a spectacle they are between a rock and a hard place because the only way I can see it working is if they move more towards RL i.e. uncontested scrums, 2 point penalty and so on.

Dave

[Panchitta Marra]

The biggest problem facing Union is that it has assumed a mantle of some moral superiority. Some Northern oiks breaking away to play with their own balls has nothing to do with an arrogant assumption of purity and all that stuff. The facts of course are somewhat at odds with the story with transfer fees and such being paid long before the Northern Union formed.
Union has no moral or sporting superiority over League, in fact quite the reverse.
However, the saddest bit of history is that unimaginative management of the League allowed Twickers to get away with it, and that was our fault.
As for the differences in play, well much has been alluded to above. OPTA shows that the ball is in play almost twice as long in League as Union. Almost every aspect of play (drawing the defender, the cut-out pass, the last ditch tackle etc.) that we love happens more in League, and it's a more honest and straightforward game. England RU have scored one try in the Autumn internationals - enough said.
Almost every innovation tried in Union started in League, and even the FA are looking at some.

Still tell your friends and get more of them to come to the games. Let's fill the stadia and enjoy the greatest game of all!

All excellent comments Steve and all so true.
Our people in charge dont look after our product, they dont protect it like Union do theirs.
The FA were looking at bringing in "Sin Binning" for the Football World Cup 2010.
It shows the yellow card being raised on a Rugby pitch.
It was shown at a Rugby Union game, not a League game.
As far as I understand, Rugby League introduced the sin binning, but on that clip it can easily be interpreted that Rugby Union were the ones to create it.
Its clever media propoganda by the RFU & the BBC, but what are our people doing to protect and advertise our game.

[stevethegas]

The FA were looking at bringing in "Sin Binning" for the Football World Cup 2010.
It shows the yellow card being raised on a Rugby pitch.
It was shown at a Rugby Union game, not a League game.
As far as I understand, Rugby League introduced the sin binning, but on that clip it can easily be interpreted that Rugby Union were the ones to create it.
Its clever media propoganda by the RFU & the BBC, but what are our people doing to protect and advertise our game.[/quote]

I tend to believe the cock-up theory of history over the conspiracy. Knowing human frailty it always seems more likely. So as to whether the sin binning was shown from RL or RU it's far more likely that someone asked for a clip "from a rugby game". Being based in Missouri or somewhere else in the deep south, the BBC never got further than rugby and looked in the amateur game's archives.
You are right we haven't done enough to promote the game. On the pitch there's simply no comparison, but off it we have allowed the "57 old farts" to dictate far more than we should. That's our fault, not their's. Yes we are getting better, but the one thing we can do is fill the grounds, and promote our game. Get people there, it's every fan's duty. When they do get there the game will promote itself.