England 10 - 22 NZ

[gillysmyhero]

I thought lockers was very good, also in 2nd half I thought Roby,Westwood added a spark that lifted us and made a lot more chances. Thought Atkins Brown were very poor.CPW your right about shenton in defense but i thought he again improved in 2 nd half in attack. Sorry to be a half empty glass on this subject because normaly in life an half full glass person but I think the only win we,ll get is
against PNG next week. Hope I'm wrong though.

[TonyH]

I thought lockers was very good, also in 2nd half I thought Roby,Westwood added a spark that lifted us and made a lot more chances. Thought Atkins Brown were very poor.CPW your right about shenton in defense but i thought he again improved in 2 nd half in attack. Sorry to be a half empty glass on this subject because normaly in life an half full glass person but I think the only win we,ll get is
against PNG next week. Hope I'm wrong though.

What is your glass full with?!!!!

[gillysmyhero]

Normaly red wine , but this morning orange juice. Hahah

[TonyH]

Normaly red wine , but this morning orange juice. Hahah

haha, beers for me today, day off from training!

[The Eclipse]

To be honest, i don't think England believed they could win that game.
What will the mindset be for next week then ?
That first half display was as bad as anything i have ever seen and the kicking game/last tackle plays was the worst i have seen in 40 years.

NZ didn't even play that good.

CP is right about Shenton, defensively very poor but he did enough in attack to retain his place next week.
I thought Goulding did ok with a couple of good runs.

Disappointed with Fielden, he showed no fire or aggression at all and Sam T looked about 50% fit, he had strapping on his leg which didn't look good.

[centralparkforever]

First of all it was 24-10 second of all why do people not listen to me in the first place? Ryan Atkins is shitting himself in defence and his arse drops out when he has the ball, everyone needs to put their todgers away over him cause he was the cause of 2 of New Zealands tries.

I've said all along that Gareth Widdop should be in the centres but noooooo everyone wants Atkins this and Atkins that, the guy is terrible and how muuch better did we look when Sam went to full back and Widdop went to the centres with Robinson at 7? Everyone bangs on about Robinson being a hooker etc, no he isn't, he is an organiser, a scrum half he started out as a scrum half and it's only since the game has progressed and hookers are just another half back that people have started calling him a hooker, Roby is fit enough to play 80 minutes like Cameron Smith does, Roby was our best player today by far.

Tomkins needs to play full back is the be all and end all, we're missing a few players but we have to work with what we've got and this is it:

1. Tomkins
2. Goulding
3. Shenton
4. Widdop
5. Briscoe/Hall
6. Brown
7. Robinson
8. Graham
9. Roby
10. Fielden
11. Ellis
12. Burgess
13. O'Loughlin (Another who played well today)

14. Crabtree
15. Westwood
16. J. Tomkins
17. Lunt

Would drop Widdop, Atkins and put Brown on the bench. This would be my team against Australia next week:

1. S. Tomkins
2. R. Hall
3. M. Shenton
4. D. Goulding
5. T. Briscoe
6. S. O'Loughlin
7. L. Robinson
8. S. Fielden
9. J. Roby
10.J. Graham (capt)
11.G.Ellis
12.B.Westwood
13.S.Burgess
Subs
14.K.Brown
15.E.Crabtree
16.G.Carvell
17.J.Tomkins

[GeoffN]

Predictable result, really - in fact the bookies got it spot on. We simply had too many players that just aren't up to international class (eg Brown, Griffin, Atkins, Shenton, Westwood). With Sam as our only playmaker, it was too easy for them to shut him down, till he moved to fullback. Really missing a specialist scrum half - even Burrow or Deacon would have been an improvement, and would have improved our woeful kicking game.

Don't see why Widdop is getting so much criticism, he did ok apart from one "Mathers moment".

[exile in Tiger country]

Thought Widdop did OK, Shenton was appalling in defence. The only time I realised Griffin was on the pitch was when NZ scored their third try by waltzing through our line.
Westwood, who normally I don't rate, was for me our best player today, showed a great deal of desire, and looked fired up. Perhaps Morley had a word with him prior to his departure?

[Panchitta Marra]

England didnt display any aggression like the Kiwis do and they knew it, bullying the game.
Too many missed tackles and unforced errors.
Poor kicking options again.
England never had a leader on the pitch, Graham looked well out of place with the armband on.

[gillysmyhero]

Predictable result, really - in fact the bookies got it spot on. We simply had too many players that just aren't up to international class (eg Brown, Griffin, Atkins, Shenton, Westwood). With Sam as our only playmaker, it was too easy for them to shut him down, till he moved to fullback. Really missing a specialist scrum half - even Burrow or Deacon would have been an improvement, and would have improved our woeful kicking game.

Don't see why Widdop is getting so much criticism, he did ok apart from one "Mathers moment".

I agree GeffN I thought Widdop had a decent game, but I thinkyour a tad harsh on Westwood who ithought had a pretty good second half and looked good in attack.