SW...and next season

[Sutty]

Can people cast their minds back to the purple patch that we had, for a few months, that seemed to end when Leuluai broke his ankle and the (totally pointless) Exiles games ruined our momentum?

Back then we were saying that the only people that could could beat us were ourselves. Was that brand of rugby not down to Wane? We were on fire. Admittedly, in hindsight, maybe we peaked too soon, but if we'd played like that from the Cup Semi through to the end of the season, we'd have walked away with everything, IMO.

Last season was only a failure if you (like IL) are judging it purely on silverware. We've come a hell of a long way in the last 3 seasons and with such a young ish squad, we're going to be there or thereabouts for the foreseeable future. I'd love us to win everything, every year and maybe we'll see those days again. But it's going to take a while. Considering it was Waney's first season as a first team head coach, I don't think he did too bad, on the whole.

I hope he can kick on next year, learn from any mistakes, add a couple of new dimensions to our play and get us playing fantastic rugby again. I certainly think it's far, far too early to judge him and start questioning his ability. I mean, can you imagine what all the doom mongers would have been like on here, had we finished in 4th, got knocked out of the early stages of the CC and struggled in the playoffs?

[Wes]

Can people cast their minds back to the purple patch that we had, for a few months, that seemed to end when Leuluai broke his ankle and the (totally pointless) Exiles games ruined our momentum?

Back then we were saying that the only people that could could beat us were ourselves. Was that brand of rugby not down to Wane? We were on fire. Admittedly, in hindsight, maybe we peaked too soon, but if we'd played like that from the Cup Semi through to the end of the season, we'd have walked away with everything, IMO.

Last season was only a failure if you (like IL) are judging it purely on silverware. We've come a hell of a long way in the last 3 seasons and with such a young ish squad, we're going to be there or thereabouts for the foreseeable future. I'd love us to win everything, every year and maybe we'll see those days again. But it's going to take a while. Considering it was Waney's first season as a first team head coach, I don't think he did too bad, on the whole.

I hope he can kick on next year, learn from any mistakes, add a couple of new dimensions to our play and get us playing fantastic rugby again. I certainly think it's far, far too early to judge him and start questioning his ability. I mean, can you imagine what all the doom mongers would have been like on here, had we finished in 4th, got knocked out of the early stages of the CC and struggled in the playoffs?

You cant hide the fact though Sutty that, wane had his best chance of putting the silverware in the cabinet last season with the players he had at his disposal.

He is going to find extremely tough this year as the perceived quality compared to last season is just not there

Really, ageing slower Finch, ageing George half a season with no paddy and no goal kicker, no fielden and no strength in depth in the props due to Preccy, flower, dudson and the likes being injured between them for the season added to that Lima couldn't be arsed once his souths deal was done and dusted AND we had more players than any other team on international duty.

IMO SW did a lot better than people give him credit for, he made some stupid tactical errors but he learned from the Widnes 1 so he'll learn from the Murphy 1, give the guy a chance before writing him off.

[neilwigan]

In my opinion Wane had a decent first year. Like people have said you can't blame him for some of our low points in the year; he cannot help that players are injured or not match fit. However like the original post said he does lack a bit of something like for example sometimes he is a bit miserable and does need to address issues differently but saying he needs the sack is too far! People aren't happy that we didn't win any 'proper' silverware but we played well for most of the season and unfortunately bottled those two semi-finals but once again it is the players that should take the blame! SW can't just go and run out there on the field when we aren't playing well and turn the whole match around!

[DaveO]

I think Kol's original post is quite reasonable because predicting what Wane might do next season based on how Wane did things this season seems pretty sensible to me.

The way Wane coached the side last season gives us an indication to how he will do it next season and if he carries on the same way and hasn't learned anything we won't do very well IMO.

He also gives the impression with several comments made in interviews and the press that he is rather stubborn and thinks he knows best compared to his predecessor.

He made deliberate changes to the way Madge did things and while early on it looked good ultimately we fell away badly. It's a big decision to change a winning formula and I never expected him to do that. I thought we'd get continuity from Madge with Wane in charge but we didn't.

Some have mentioned the Exiles game and other injuries. That is when you need a coach the most and it was the period after when Wane proved the most lacking.

Have people forgotten his insistence of playing Lockers at 6 during this time? It never works against the good sides and we had several positional changes as a result of Lockers moving away from 13.

Matty Smith must have wondered why he'd been signed. Wane wanted to play Lockers at 6 in the semi final so Smith turned up and couldn't get a game in the halves until after that and then once Tommy was fit again he was clearly not going to replace Tommy or Finch.

The bench selections were often baffling as well. Tuscon and his 5 or 10 minute spells per game springs to mind. McIllorum doing the full 80 did IMO take its toll as the season wore on with no interchange.

We never really regained the form of the pre-exiles games and if you look back you can see lots of little mistakes by Wane that in isolation don't look bad but when you put them together go along way to explaining the tailing off we saw IMO.

What he needs to do is learn from last season and be big enough to admit where he went wrong.

Finally as to the players taking the blame that isn't how it works and it never has. The buck stops with the coach.

[DaveO]

You cant hide the fact though Sutty that, wane had his best chance of putting the silverware in the cabinet last season with the players he had at his disposal.

He is going to find extremely tough this year as the perceived quality compared to last season is just not there

I agree. People can paint as many of the ex-players in as a bad a light as they want to try and make a point but you have got to be a bit mad to think the replacements are as good as the ones who left IMO.

Then there is the Hock situation to consider. Is he going to be as effective given the club was obviously prepared to let him go? How is Wane going to deal with him?

This is where Kol's analogy of sheep led by a lion comes in. With the current roster we need a top coach to get them to play beyond their perceived level. I guess we will find out if Wane can do that in 2013.

If anything this perceived lower quality side will work in his favour. Expectations are not high from the fans and it's a ready made excuse. A bit like the one made for Noble when he took over which was "It's not his team."

I suppose for Wane what will matter is what IL's expectations are not if the fans are prepared to be charitable if things don't go so well.

[ancientnloyal]

Like it or not, whoever is in charge, the only thing that matters for Wigan RL is winning trophies. Nothing else matters. Finishing top is nice but will we be remembered for that in 2038? No (unless you read my site).

Success = trophies or nothing. If the coach cannot deliver we all know the drill.

[Mike]

Wrt Kols original prediction of finishing 8th - where are the 7 teams that are going to be above us?

Wire, Saints, Leeds .... um .... Catalan ... Hull? ..... Wakefield(!)

Thats a stupid prediction IMO. The worst we are going to see is third or fourth and we'll be in the top 4 all year at the very least.

Also, i don't think there is any chance Lenegan will sack Wayne even if we do worse than that - we've seen how reluctant IL is to part with compensation payments - he's much more likely to just let his contract run down.

I'd say SW is likely to take some of the lessons from his first season on board in his next season. If he didn't do that he would still bascially be a Under 18s coach having never learned from his prior life experience. We shall see how effective his improvement is.

Personally the up side to next season is that noone else has improved their squad meaningfully, so we'll be up there with the big boys again despite our weakened playing squad.

[Ron Doran]

Silly me - I thought that we were going to aim for fifth spot end of the season?

[DaveO]

Thats a stupid prediction IMO. The worst we are going to see is third or fourth and we'll be in the top 4 all year at the very least.

I don't think we will finish that low but dropping down is not that hard. We had wins at Cats away and hammered Leeds, beat Saints and four more losses would have seen us on 34 points and those teams with more points themselves so that would have us at 5th.

So while Kol my be overly pessimistic I think the question is are we going to remain in the Wire, Saints, Cats, Leeds group or drop into the Hudds, Hull and Wakey end of the top 8? Only four more losses required for that.

Also, i don't think there is any chance Lenegan will sack Wayne even if we do worse than that - we've seen how reluctant IL is to part with compensation payments - he's much more likely to just let his contract run down.

His contract is up at the end of the season so I'd expect Wane to be here for all of 2013 regardless. It's not just compensation IL doesn't like paying out but I think he gives his coaches their contract to deliver and then decides to renew or not. If as mentioned earlier IL was unhappy with this season I can't see Wane getting a new deal if things go even "worse".

I'd say SW is likely to take some of the lessons from his first season on board in his next season. If he didn't do that he would still bascially be a Under 18s coach having never learned from his prior life experience. We shall see how effective his improvement is.

My concern is he won't have learned a thing. His interviews give the impression he has his own ideas and that he will stick with them. Like you say, we shall see but if he wants a new contract things need to change and his job is harder given the changes to the squad.

Personally the up side to next season is that no one else has improved their squad meaningfully, so we'll be up there with the big boys again despite our weakened playing squad.

If we go backwards standards-wise all that does is make it easier for these teams to win the thing. I can't see any new challengers such as Hull coming up so a bet of a repeat Leeds and Wire grand final now wouldn't be that stupid in my opinion. Even so I think despite the fact I think our squad is weaker I reckon a top coach could get it to punch above its weight given the opposition. So I think Wane's coaching of it will be crucial.

It would be absolutely fantastic if Wane got this team running rings round the likes of Wire. It's not just Wigan fans who think we won't be much of a challenge next season and I'd happily be proved wrong along with them if we were. Blake Green Man of Steel? Lauaki best no 8 in the league?

[platt-warrior]

I do wish some poster's on this forum would stop making pronounsments on my behalf.The word "perceived"i noticed has recently been used by both Two-eyed Warrior and the mighty DaveO which imo are not my opinion:

1 I for one think squad is something to get quite excited about.I believe Blake Green will add something the half-back line has lacked over the last few seasons ie speed.I,m not convinced Finch was that great a half,and would go as far to say he could be classed as a "journeyman" on the back-end of his career.
2 I look forward to see Taylor who i think is the type of prop we,ve needed for some time,ie a "shithouse prop" who takes the opposition forwards on,unlike the back-end of Lima,s season who, quite frankly had his bag packed long before the season was over.
3 Could someone please explain why there is a need to subtitute the hooker,it is imo unecessary now TL has gone MM should improve and become the best hooker in SL.

I THINK THERE IS MUCH TO LOOK FORWARD TO NEXT SEASON,the new squad is fast and young(on average)and has the potential to be as good as the previos.