The biggest failing of Wane

[cpwigan]

"Michael Maguire has put a structure in place, which is going to carry on, but I feel I can improve things.

"There's been games this year I don't think we should have lost and it's my job as head coach to make sure the lads are prepared and we win those games.""

Ego / stupidity call it what you want BUT IMO I am not sure Wane truly learned the most significant lessons he should have from Madge.

Essentially RL is a simple game. You run straight and hard with minimal passing to avoid potential mistakes and in doing so you work over the opposition forwards sometimes more than once in a set. Fast POTBs, get on the front foot to provide your kickers with the time to make the opposition bring the ball back from deep met by a gang of willing chasers.

I believe the modern term is the 'arm wrestle'

Madge understood RL IMO far better than Wane ever will. The time to play elaborately is in the opposition 20. Look at Wire, the one spell where we started to get the ascendancy we were direct, even scooting, dare I say one out and we got on the front foot which then gave our backs the time and space in their 20 to create some havoc. Ironically, Wire are now more direct and we are somewhat a mirror image of Wire when they won the LLS and destroyed teams with cricket scores. Sure it looks wonderful BUT it is not 'FINAL FOOTBALL' Hence, why the clueless Wane criticised Madge and his teams for not destroying teams in meaningless games by higher scores. Perhaps Madge understood about process and habits.

Lateral running / passing; too many passes ESPECIALLY in your own half wins plaudits when it comes off BUT IN BIG GAMES / IN FINALS FOOTBALL IT FAILS FAR MORE THAN IT WINS. What do fans want? cricket scores in meaningless matches or victories when it matters. IMO, Wane is holding Wigan RLFC back with his abandonment or ignorance towards the lesson Madge provided him with on a daily basis because he seemingly knows better. I would suggest the opposite.

[Kaii]

First loss in 14 matches plus a massive list of injured players, what is there to complain about? Things are going well, we have some good young players coming through and we are top of the league

[Kittwazzer]

1.36am? I take it he isn't sleeping through yet CP!

[cpwigan]

1.36am? I take it he isn't sleeping through yet CP!

I now watch my RL at obscure times KW Teething makes sleep and I distant friend. Kaii not a reaction to a defeat it is something that has been annoying me for a while. We now resemble the Wire team of 3 seasons ago.

[No straw damn us]

But on Monday that was the way to win, and it very nearly paid off. We didn't have the forward power to match Wire. I suspect we would have seen more of "an arm wrestle" had we been able to field a stronger pack. The big error was Sam's poor kick after Crosbys break, a more precise kick, Charnley scores and Wigan win.

[sheepsteeth]

I usually agree with you CP and i can see where you're coming from but it's the chicken and the egg.

Our problem against Warrington over the last few years is we've been bullied up front, because we get bullied up front when they have the ball the forwards can get up and play it quicker, when we have the ball we get put on our backs and the play the ball slows down hence why Logan was passing nearly all the time.

I don't necessarily think it's the way Wane sends them out i just think there front row is generally bigger than ours. I would suggest as the game went on the youth and mobility in our front row meant we tired less and that is why we got on the front foot. But at the death experience got Wire over the line.

Whatever Wane does it doesn't change any of that.

[DaveO]

"Michael Maguire has put a structure in place, which is going to carry on, but I feel I can improve things.

"There's been games this year I don't think we should have lost and it's my job as head coach to make sure the lads are prepared and we win those games.""

Ego / stupidity call it what you want BUT IMO I am not sure Wane truly learned the most significant lessons he should have from Madge.

Oi! Stop stealing my thunder!

I highlighted those statements from Wane last season.

When we found out Madge was leaving I wanted Wane to replace him as I assumed that would give us continuity and I didn't want an outsider changing things.

How stupid was I to think that?

Wane's job hangs on those statements IMO. Or it should do.

If you want to change a winning formula you had better have good reasons and had better bring success or you ought to have a lot of explaining to do.

In the recent thread about the best match under madge/wane a lot of people agreed with me it was beating Saints in the GF and for the same reasons. Not only did we score some great tries we controlled the game.

I don't think we have ever exerted that kind of control in a game under Wane. Sure we have thrashed a few teams but that is not the same thing. Thrashing rubbish teams is not the same as controlling the game against a top side.

This is a general point by the way, not a reflection on the Wire game but how we have gone against the better sides since Wane has been in charge.

[cpwigan]

No Straw

I do not think we played any different on Monday than we have done all season in approach therein can be construed as a weakness or a strength. We are not 1st in passes per match in SL for nothing.

You do not necessarily have to be big and powerful to go straight and direct in your own half. The back 3 play a big role; Sam scooting for example gets yards and a fast POTB; Josh and Pat are both great. Finding the floor upon / almost just before contact rather than playing strong man is often far far better.

The moment your game plan goes lateral in your own half then unless you achieve that goal of breaking from deep you are on the back foot. V garbage it sometimes pays and looks spectacular. Remember Wire a few seasons ago, Wigan now. Even v garbage we have been getting games swinging backwards and forwards from control to on the back foot. Worse mistakes in your own half can see periods of domination by the opposition. Wire gave it to us in the first 40 and last 20 of that game. The game was a testimony to our defensive effort, our heart and courage BUT you eventually run out of 'gas' / players get hurt more often and it is no recipe to win big games.

Adrian Morley was actually our best weapon. IIRC, the second half started with Wire nearly scoring and then for 20 minutes we started getting on the front foot aided by Morleys stupid ball stealing penalties.

Wire had plenty of opportunities, and we had some too. In fact if we get in the opp 20 we are incredibly dangerous therein lies the crux, why not just follow a Madge mantra and get there as easy as possible and if possible destroy teams ASAP. The Madge way IMO works even better in big games. Lateral play in the wrong areas and excessive passing is our biggest weakness. It is Wanes achilles heel.

[Owd Codger]

First loss in 14 matches plus a massive list of injured players, what is there to complain about? Things are going well, we have some good young players coming through and we are top of the league

Careful, you will upset the mafia!

[KOOCH]

Lets wait until the end of the season and see if your summary of Wane still holds true.Yes you have some valid points but on the back of a loss to a team with a more settled experienced pack of forwards against a team of youngsters could possibly cloud your judgement and what with a youngster teething it is enough to find fault with anything.Yes Madge was special but Madge was short lived and did not blood enough youth for me.We are in another era now.So lets see how the season pans out shall we.