Why we are playing poorly!!!

[cpwigan]

We might think otherwise BUT sport at the top level is damn difficult. In ANY sport it is easier to defend than attack. Match a good defence v a good attack and I will take the good defence 99 times out of a 100 to win.

In RL terms it is slightly more complex / difficult than say football for example. In RL, field position and possession (important in any team sport) are the key determinants IMO of who wins / loses. You do get games that dispel that belief BUT if you take 50 / 100 / 1000 games they will be the minority.

At a high level, perhaps any level, it is far easier to defend in RL in the opposition 20 / at the very least their half. Logically and stating the obvious, the worst place to defend is your own try line / your own half. Two teams playing well tend to cancel each other out 'getting in the arm wrestle so to speak'. IMO it can become akin to RL tennis making your ground, good kick and chase; opponents catch the kick and repeat the process UNTIL somebody makes a mistake / cracks. I personally think Wigan under Wane try to fly in the face of this most basic 'law' of RL.

You have to concentrate on set completion and territorial gain in your own half. Otherwise you leave yourselves open to defending for the majority of the game and rarely getting a good attacking field position. Poor discipline in terms of ball control and ill-discipline in terms of on field conduct mean the opposing team get more possession overall BUT vitally that possession is often in your own half / 20 leaving a Wigan team expending their energy defending their own line / sometimes for repeat sets with very limited energy left for advancing down field when Wigan get their limited possessions. Worse what possession Wigan do get wasted as tired players = more mistakes and fatigued players are more likely to incur injuries that affect not only the current game but also forthcoming games.

Wigan are not alone is committing such cardinal sins of RL. Wire, at times, are equally stupid due to IMO arrogance and over confidence. Chris Bridge is the perfect example of how stupid British RL players can be. Hence, why Leeds have been so successful in recent seasons. The Rhinos play a much more sensible game of RL than the likes of Wigan and Warrington, even more when it comes to finals football. Warrington have shown they can play to a similar level as they did v Huddersfield. How often have Wigan done so under Wane? Are Huddersfield doing anything special? How can a team go from also-rans to LLW in half a season? Everybody acknowledges and understands that British RL is not at the same level as Australian RL but our clubs do their upmost to prove conclusively that is the case with unbelievable stupidity and a lack of mental toughness.

Wigan under Wane shows no regard for field position in terms of tactics. Our approach towards playing in our own half and dominating field position borders on lunacy. Whatever happened to backs scooting / 1 pass drives from our own line for the full set if need be until we obtain a better field position. Charnley/Tomkins/Richards are or at least were excellent at scooting upfield. Some of the best tries ever scored in recent season came from Charnley and Tomkins scooting. Goulding is an excellent scooter. Thornley could be good if he works harder! THE ABILITY OF OUR OUTSIDE BACKS TO DO HARD YARDS IS AN ADVANTAGE WE HAVE OVER OTHER TEAMS.
Many teams are now going down the ‘big is best’ route.

Those huge guys signed by Hudds, Saints for next season, Lawton from Widnes are the slowest, least agile players on the pitch in any match whomever they play against. They are also in some respects conditioned very differently expecting to be interchanged after a quarter etc. You can if you wish match like for like BUT why not EXPLOIT the size of these giants? What do big guys hate? Speed and agility! Repeat efforts!! I want to see those lumbering giants ‘gassed’! zig zag left right to make them work twice in the same set. Tie the big guys into where you are working. If they are tackling you then they are the worst dummy half defenders possible making the next scoot / 1 pass drive even better and gaining more yards. In our 20, YARDS, FINDING THE FLOOR QUICKLY IN GOOD POSITION, GOOD FAST NEXT POTB, MAKING THE OPP TIGHT ‘A’ DEFENDERS WORK THEIR BEHINDS OFF, THE BIGGER YOU ARE THE HARDER IT IS TO GO BACKWARDS. You want a Big Earl gasping! A Mark O’Meley wanting to go back to Aus. 20 minutes should leave the lungs of any opposition front rower BURNING!! The more the ball is passed / the more it moves laterally THE MORE CHANCE OF ERRORS, SURRENDERING POSSESSION, A POORER FIELD POSITION RESULTS, THE MORE DEFENCE IS ON THE FRONT FOOT, THE LESS DEMANDS HAVE BEEN PLACED ON YOUR OPPONENTS FORWARDS AND THE WORSE SCENARIO FOR A DOWNTOWN KICK & CHASE. If these strategies were good enough for Madge, good enough for John Monie, Graham Lowe, every successful NRL coach / team then why not High and Mighty MR WIGAN!! You play the hand you are dealt with and our team is not full of big boppers.

If you have a game won, 30pts+ lead then by all means throw a wide shift in every now and then to add unpredictability but why not follow RL basic logic and do the fundamentals rather than trying to conjure cores every set. What happened to patience? What happened to the fundamentals of field position & possession?

From the 20 to the half way line LOOK at how laterally spread Wigan are. The distance between the POTB (Mac) and his halfbacks 20 yards away. How few forwards are around the POTB. Talk about giving the game away and cutting down your options!!! I think Mac can work the POTB IF he has the forwards are around him. Likewise Smith / Green. Those big boppers you have been tiring will be trying to gather their breadth, getting lazy resting. Put a Taylor v them, a Liam Farrell, a Lockers, even better when he plays / has played why not drop off to young Hampshire with his speed / evasion. Do you think Morley / Carvell / Crabtree / Kopzak / Peacock / Kylie want to face the like of Ryan Hampshire / Robbie Burrow etc. What do Lunt or Higham like to do? Attack or TACKLE!!! Make them work. Monaghan at 9 is on his last legs BURN HIM. Yes put the odd shift on in your own half but it is still about possession / field position. Why do we never kick early? Why has Mac stopped kicking? Richards has a huge boot, use it occasionally. Ultimately though Kickers are made to look good or bad by the yardage being gained / speed of POTB. Why wait until the last to kick? If you are concentrating on field position then you can kick earlier in the set if need be. Less chance of mistakes that way too.
If you have a game won, 30pts+ lead then by all means throw a trick play like a chip over in your own half every now and then to add unpredictability but why not follow RL basic logic and do the fundamentals rather than trying to conjure cores every set. What happened to patience? What happened to the fundamentals of field position & possession?

Whomever we play EVERY TEAM is far less dangerous if they are in their own 20. Turn opposing teams around. Those Big boppers you have been burning are gasping at being turned around, the last thing they want is to hit it up and if they do your fresh forwards can massacre them. If their backs want to scoot etc, compress and massacre them as their big boppers are not set and still panting. An advantage Wigan has is the fitness & agility of forwards like Farrell/Hansen/Lockers/Mac Play to your strengths!!!

Odd isn’t it ALL THE ABOVE is how we played under Madge. The players need to man up, screw Wane and go back to what works, THE MADGE WAY. Win games in the first half/watch opposing players get injured through fatigue not ours/watch opposing players make mistakes NOT ours.

Even in the opp 20 you want Mac to be a pest going or the try line from acting half. Lunt / Higham / Hulls 9 are pests; greedy pests!! They sometimes go themselves when they should pass BUT they tie the A defenders and more in so when you do move it more time / less pressure for their halves. How good is Brough? Is he effective in his own 20 OR downright difficult to contain in your 20 with his trick kicks etc FIELD POSITION IS EVERYTHING!!! Make Brough / Robinson play in their own 20 they suck as do most / all half backs. Put them in your 20 and you are asking for trouble. Wire sent chasers from Broughs kicking foot side to negate his kick. Do we ever do things like that?

The players have got to enjoy playing hard ball. Remembers the pathetic promises by our current blundering coach mixed with veiled criticisms of the Madge Way. You are supposedly watching a team that will be bigger / stronger / faster / far better skills / put teams to the sword / win games that we previously lost LOL / win games by much bigger margins than previously lol REMEMBER THOSE CRAPPY FALSE PROMISES???? Bull / Bravado / Garbage ????? These players are NEARLY ALL according to his cheerleaders produced by Wane!!! Why are they so bad at putting the Wane Way into Practice? Perhaps because apart from Gary Schofield NOBODY believes you can re-write the basics of modern day RL.

WE have the best player in SL (Lockers!!) WE have the best attacker in SL (Tomkins!!) WE have some seriously good RL players WE have some amazing youngsters WE have the best conditioning team WE have a numpty coach who inherited a winning team / formula. Can people explain Eric or Powell as signings Can people explain trying to turn Hughes into a centre then not playing him there? Can people explain a RIGHTY Green having to play LEFTY Can people explain Mac not playing the 80 instead of the by the clock interchange? Why not have a halfback on the interchange if/when you need to replace him? Why have Greenwood or Tom Spencer never been given more chances? Why was Greg Burke selected at 13 for several games but not v Catalans? Why has H a man with a horrible wrist injury been asked to hit flat crash balls when his wrist makes it so hard for him to retain the ball as he takes the tackle? Why do we no longer kick for Pat and now Pat/Thornley? Too many decisions by Wane defy logic, look poor / are poor yet some poor souls allow him to hide behind AWWW but he is a Wiganer!!!! So is Fat Harry but does he get treated like a God ?????

Sorry but Wane had a fabulous RL education; ASK Paul Deacon!! An incredibly legacy and he is screwing it up whether we win at Wembley or not which I hope and think we can do but despite the coach NOT because of him. Wane is Dorahay MkII

[cpwigan]

This is my response to a question posed by Mike but I did not have time to reply to until now.

[Kittwazzer]

This is my response to a question posed by Mike but I did not have time to reply to until now.

That is not a response, its a dissertation. Too much for me on a Sunday morning!

[RobWigan]

As i havw said a few times already, what happens if we win Saturday and win the grand final, you still want him sacked???

[BriH]

Looks like a good read after I've had my breakfast!

I was asking myself the same question last night.
Difficult to understand how virtually the same group of players who were playing so well in the early days of the Comp are so bad now?
What's changed? There is a distinct lack of enthusiasm in the team and often, as history shows, it is the Coach who is at the root of it all. The dreaded Player Power.
Don't get me wrong, I really like Shaun Wayne but...........?

[Owd Codger]

We might think otherwise BUT sport at the top level is damn difficult. In ANY sport it is easier to defend than attack. Match a good defence v a good attack and I will take the good defence 99 times out of a 100 to win.

In RL terms it is slightly more complex / difficult than say football for example. In RL, field position and possession (important in any team sport) are the key determinants IMO of who wins / loses. You do get games that dispel that belief BUT if you take 50 / 100 / 1000 games they will be the minority.

At a high level, perhaps any level, it is far easier to defend in RL in the opposition 20 / at the very least their half. Logically and stating the obvious, the worst place to defend is your own try line / your own half. Two teams playing well tend to cancel each other out 'getting in the arm wrestle so to speak'. IMO it can become akin to RL tennis making your ground, good kick and chase; opponents catch the kick and repeat the process UNTIL somebody makes a mistake / cracks. I personally think Wigan under Wane try to fly in the face of this most basic 'law' of RL.

You have to concentrate on set completion and territorial gain in your own half. Otherwise you leave yourselves open to defending for the majority of the game and rarely getting a good attacking field position. Poor discipline in terms of ball control and ill-discipline in terms on field conduct mean the opposing team get more possession overall BUT vitally that possession is often in your own half / 20 leaving a Wigan team expending their energy defending their own line / sometimes for repeat sets with very limited energy left for advancing down field when Wigan get their limited possessions. Worse what possession Wigan do get wasted as tired players = more mistakes and fatigued players are more likely to incur injuries that affect not only the current game but also forthcoming games.

Wigan are not alone is committing such cardinal sins of RL. Wire, at times, are equally stupid due to IMO arrogance and over confidence. Chris Bridge is the perfect example of how stupid British RL players can be. Hence, why Leeds have been so successful in recent seasons. The Rhinos play a much more sensible game of RL than the likes of Wigan and Warrington, even more when it comes to finals football. Warrington have shown they can play to a similar level as they did v Huddersfield. How often have Wigan done so under Wane? Are Huddersfield doing anything special? How can a team go from also-rans to LLW in half a season? Everybody acknowledges and understands that British RL is not at the same level as Australian RL but our clubs do their upmost to prove conclusively that is the case with unbelievable stupidity and a lack of mental toughness.

Wigan under Wane shows no regard for field position in terms of tactics. Our approach towards playing in our own half and dominating field position borders on lunacy. Whatever happened to backs scooting / 1 pass drives from our own line for the full set if need be until we obtain a better field position. Charnley/Tomkins/Richards are at least were excellent at scooting upfield. Some of the best tries ever scored in recent season came from Charnley and Tomkins scooting. Goulding is an excellent scooter. Thornley could be good if he works harder! THE ABILITY OF OUR OUTSIDE BACKS TO DO HARD YARDS IS AN ADVANTAGE WE HAVE OVER OTHER TEAMS.
Many teams are now going down the ‘big is best’ route.

Those huge guys signed by Hudds, Saints for next season, Lawton from Widnes are the slowest, least agile players on the pitch in any match whomever they play against. They are also in some respects conditioned very differently expecting to be interchanged after a quarter etc. You can if you wish match like for like BUT why not EXPLOIT the size of these giants? What do big guys hate? Speed and agility! Repeat efforts!! I want to see those lumbering giants ‘gassed’! zig zag left right to make them work twice in the same set. Tie the big guys into where you are working. If they are tackling you then they are the worst dummy half defenders possible making the next scoot / 1 pass drive even better and gaining more yards. In our 20, YARDS, FINDING THE FLOOR QUICKLY IN GOOD POSITION, GOOD FAST NEXT POTB, MAKING THE OPP TIGHT ‘A’ DEFENDERS WORK THEIR BEHINDS OFF, THE BIGGER YOU ARE THE HARDER IT IS TO GO BACKWARDS. You want a Big Earl gasping! A Mark O’Meley wanting to go back to Aus. 20 minutes should leave the lungs of any opposition front rower BURNING!! The more the ball is passed / the more it moves laterally THE MORE CHANCE OF ERRORS, SURRENDERING POSSESSION, A POORER FIELD POSITION RESULTS, THE MORE DEFENCE IS ON THE FRONT FOOT, THE LESS DEMANDS HAVE BEEN PLACED ON YOUR OPPONENTS FORWARDS AND THE WORSE SCENARIO FOR A DOWNTOWN KICK & CHASE. If these strategies were good enough for Madge, good enough for John Monie, Graham Lowe, every successful NRL coach / team then why not High and Mighty MR WIGAN!! You play the hand you are dealt with and our team is not full of big boppers.

If you have a game won, 30pts+ lead then by all means throw a wide shift in every now and then to add unpredictability but why not follow RL basic logic and do the fundamentals rather than trying to conjure cores every set. What happened to patience? What happened to the fundamentals of field position & possession?

From the 20 to the half way line LOOK at how laterally spread Wigan are. The distance between the POTB (Mac) and his halfbacks 20 yards away. How few forwards are around the POTB. Talk about giving the game away and cutting down your options!!! I think Mac can work the POTB IF he has the forwards are around him. Likewise Smith / Green. Those big boppers you have been tiring will be trying to gather their breadth, getting lazy resting. Put a Taylor v them, a Liam Farrell, a Lockers, even better when he plays / has played why not drop off to young Hampshire with his speed / evasion. Do you think Morley / Carvell / Crabtree / Kopzak / Peacock / Kylie want to face the like of Ryan Hampshire / Robbie Burrow etc. What do Lunt or Higham like to do? Attack or TACKLE!!! Make them work. Monaghan at 9 is on his last legs BURN HIM. Yes put the odd shift on in your own half but it is still about possession / field position. Why do we never kick early? Why has Mac stopped kicking? Richards has a huge boot, use it occasionally. Ultimately though Kickers are made to look good or bad by the yardage being gained / speed of POTB. Why wait until the last to kick? If you are concentrating on field position then you can kick earlier in the set if need be. Less chance of mistakes that way too.
If you have a game won, 30pts+ lead then by all means throw a trick play like a chip over in your own half every now and then to add unpredictability but why not follow RL basic logic and do the fundamentals rather than trying to conjure cores every set. What happened to patience? What happened to the fundamentals of field position & possession?

Whomever we play EVERY TEAM is far less dangerous if they are in their own 20. Turn opposing teams around. Those Big boppers you have been burning are gasping at being turned around, the last thing they want is to hit it up and if they do your fresh forwards can massacre them. If their backs want to scoot etc, compress and massacre them as their big boppers are not set and still panting. An advantage Wigan has is the fitness & agility of forwards like Farrell/Hansen/Lockers/Mac Play to your strengths!!!

Odd isn’t it ALL THE ABOVE is how we played under Madge. The players need to man up, screw Wane and go back to what works, THE MADGE WAY. Win games in the first half/watch opposing players get injured through fatigue not ours/watch opposing players make mistakes NOT ours.

Even in the opp 20 you want Mac to be a pest going or the try line from acting half. Lunt / Higham / Hulls 9 are pests; greedy pests!! They sometimes go themselves when they should pass BUT they tie the A defenders and more in so when you do move it more time / less pressure for their halves. How good is Brough? Is he effective in his own 20 OR downright difficult to contain in your 20 with his trick kicks etc FIELD POSITION IS EVERYTHING!!! Make Brough / Robinson play in their own 20 they suck as do most / all half backs. Put them in your 20 and you are asking for trouble. Wire sent chasers from Broughs kicking foot side to negate his kick. Do we ever do things like that?

The players have got to enjoy playing hard ball. Remembers the pathetic promises by our current blundering coach mixed with veiled criticisms of the Madge Way. You are supposedly watching a team that will be bigger / stronger / faster / far better skills / put teams to the sword / win games that we previously lost LOL / win games by much bigger margins than previously lol REMEMBER THOSE CRAPPY FALSE PROMISES???? Bull / Bravado / Garbage ????? These players are NEARLY ALL according to his cheerleaders produced by Wane!!! Why are they so bad at putting the Wane Way into Practice? Perhaps because apart from Gary Schofield NOBODY believes you can re-write the basics of modern day RL.

WE have the best player in SL (Lockers!!) WE have the best attacker in SL (Tomkins!!) WE have some seriously good RL players WE have some amazing youngsters WE have the best conditioning team WE have a numpty coach who inherited a winning team / formula. Can people explain Eric or Powell as signings Can people explain trying to turn Hughes into a centre then not playing him there? Can people explain a RIGHTY Green having to play LEFTY Can people explain Mac not playing the 80 instead of the by the clock interchange? Why not have a halfback on the interchange if/when you need to replace him? Why have Greenwood or Tom Spencer never been given more chances? Why was Greg Burke selected at 13 for several games but not v Catalans? Why has H a man with a horrible wrist injury been asked to hit flat crash balls when his wrist makes it so hard for him to retain the ball as he takes the tackle? Why do we no longer kick for Pat and now Pat/Thornley? Too many decisions by Wane defy logic, look poor / are poor yet some poor souls allow him to hide behind AWWW but he is a Wiganer!!!! So is Fat Harry but does he get treated like a God ?????

Sorry but Wane had a fabulous RL education; ASK Paul Deacon!! An incredibly legacy and he is screwing it up whether we win at Wembley or not which I hope and think we can do but despite the coach NOT because of him. Wane is Dorahay MkII

You sure have a bee in your bonnet about Wane!

If he goes, who will be next for the treatment?

[RobWigan]

Looks like a good read after I've had my breakfast!

I was asking myself the same question last night.
Difficult to understand how virtually the same group of players who were playing so well in the early days of the Comp are so bad now?
What's changed? There is a distinct lack of enthusiasm in the team and often, as history shows, it is the Coach who is at the root of it all. The dreaded Player Power.
Don't get me wrong, I really like Shaun Wayne but...........?

Maybe it is tiredness, it is proven history that you are unlikely to win both, maybe.other teams have sussed out our gameplan, whatever it is i am.still.going.to enjoy this week and Saturday

COME ON ITS WEMBLEY WEEK!!

[Owd Codger]

Looks like a good read after I've had my breakfast!

I was asking myself the same question last night.
Difficult to understand how virtually the same group of players who were playing so well in the early days of the Comp are so bad now?
What's changed? There is a distinct lack of enthusiasm in the team and often, as history shows, it is the Coach who is at the root of it all. The dreaded Player Power.
Don't get me wrong, I really like Shaun Wayne but...........?

Maybe it is tiredness, it is proven history that you are unlikely to win both, maybe.other teams have sussed out our gameplan, whatever it is i am.still.going.to enjoy this week and Saturday



COME ON ITS WEMBLEY WEEK!!

Hope the Chuckle Brothers are not on our Coach as like yourself we are going to enjoy the occasion and may the best team win.

Hopefully, Wigan!

[RobWigan]

Exactly , Whatever the rights and wrongs of the team , its Wwmbley, we should all feel happy we are.back again,Plenty.food, alcohol and fun

[thegimble]

As i havw said a few times already, what happens if we win Saturday and win the grand final, you still want him sacked???

If we do not win anything do you think he should keep his job? Going off form we are not winning on Saturday. Hull are improving and we are getting worse.

CP and Dave will be the first to admit they got it wrong but i bet if we still won nothing this season you would want Wane to stay just because he is a Wiganer and thats not a good enough reason for him to stay.