Re: Wasn't great

DaveO · Post by **DaveO** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:35 am

Exiled Wiganer posted:
I feel desperately sorry for the lads who try their hearts out each week, like Hansen, Seu Seu, Tickle and Guisset. The halves were hopeless, again, but really we have too little talent by some distance to take on this Leeds side. And they were missing a number of their top players as well, not that anyone would notice...

The thing is though that this Leeds side isn't that great. We were the architects of our own downfall tonight. Had we cut the mistakes out we probably still would not have won but it would have been much closer.

I agree about the four players you singled out. I can't fault those four for commitment this season. I think Tickle has proved a lot of doubters wrong unfortunately the rest of the team are too inconsitent but aren't being helped by an inconsistent selection policy by Betts. Half of them don't know where they are playing one week to the next and even with injures there is no need for that.

I fear for us against Bradford next week. Their big lads will be licking their lips.

I have written that off as well as the season.

Dave

hayley 04 · Post by **hayley 04** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:40 am

Blaming individual players isn't going to solve anything. We had a bad loss tonight and we've got to pick ourselves up and fight back. For a long time om this message board it's been said we need another couple of props and i've always brushed it off but after tonight we are getting desperate. Jerry and Jerome were wonderful but they can't go on for 80 mins without a break and the young kids who are coming on are just as good but not big enough or experienced enough to control the pack. If the pack don't control the game we are on the backfoot and can't get anywhere in attack. The entire back's from 1 to 7 spent all night tackling they never got a chance to open any attack and now is not the time to start throwing insults at individuals. Until the pack get's sorted i can't see a way forward for us. I've always been a believer in Maurice Lindsay but my support for him is beginning to waver. I don't understand what he's playing at. Surely it doesn't take a genius to realise what we need even if we only sign them on a short term contract it will help for this season. I'm very disappointed but remain very proud of my boys!

robjoenz · Post by **robjoenz** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:34 am

mrs_carney posted:
Leeds were good, but i have to say i think they are the dirtiest team in rugby league and the luckiest as they never get penalised, dallas

They do play some great rugby but the most underhand team I've seen in a while, as you rightly point out their 'flat' passes are often a yard or two forward and I don't go for all this rubbish about momentum, it just means you throw the ball back further so it doesn't travel forwards!

I was also angry at the fans that leave with 10 minutes on the clock, one of my pet hates.

Another of my pet hates was the way every Leeds fan in the car park was driving bumper to bumper with the car in front and jumping the queue which delayed everyone getting out. Every other team that visits here has no problem with courtesy except the Sheep Lovers.

Alex the Warrior · Post by **Alex the Warrior** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:39 am

Where do you start with that one? Men against boys probably summed it up well.

The top teams seem massive compared with us (except when Scully is playing), and they seem so much fitter. I knew they were going to pile on the points at the end.

I think the club has to launch a 5 year plan to get back to the top. This must start with recruiting the right players (that'll be Mo out of a job then) and learning to handle the salary cap. It probably means hiring a top class coach too. Look how Leeds improved after getting rid of Powell! The team gives their all, but where is the inspired rugby? It looks like we will have to go through the rest of the season with only one player (Newton) performing in the key positions. I've no idea what is going on with the half backs. I was hoping after the bang on the head, that someone would tell Danny Orr that his name was Shuan Edwards so that he could produce something worthwhile for us.

If you were looking to keep the players at the club who were really good enough for Wigan, you wouldn't be able to put out a full team. Are there actually any plans to replace Farrell?

Tonight, I don't recall any possession that threatened the Leeds line all night - the 2 tries coming from breaks.

Kirkpatrick was a joke. I don't think Dan Marino ever threw as many forward passes in one match as they did! Don't know which clown was video ref, but I was sure Senior scored with a double movement and I'm not convinced the score in the other corner was grounded. Add to this the constant offsides, playing the ball forward during the set leading up to one of their tries and penalties for non-existent head tackles against Seu Seu, and what little chance we were going to have became no chance at all.

hayley 04 · Post by **hayley 04** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:57 am

Give it a rest about blaming individual players. I don't want another week of defending Danny Orr when this time he never had a chance to do anything as he spent all his time tackling. At least he had the courage to continue after that heartstopping moment when we all thought he had done some serious damage. Bet you wouldn't have got back up and carried on. If you think you can do better than those boys out there start lacing up your boots and get on with it! Stop critising coz you can't do any better.

DaveO · Post by **DaveO** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 2:24 am

hayley 04 posted:
Give it a rest about blaming individual players. I don't want another week of defending Danny Orr when this time he never had a chance to do anything as he spent all his time tackling. At least he had the courage to continue after that heartstopping moment when we all thought he had done some serious damage.

Well you are probably not going to like this, but that moment was his own fault! He didn't nned to dice for the ruddy ball!

Bet you wouldn't have got back up and carried on. If you think you can do better than those boys out there start lacing up your boots and get on with it! Stop critising coz you can't do any better.

He got up and carried on because he could and I expect every Wiganplayer would have done the same.

I am not knocking Orr's comitment to the club and I don't think he is going to get very far as a half back behind the pack we put out but you need to spot the difference between blame and opinion on a players ability.

I "blamed" Gary Connolly a season or two ago from losing the ball in the tackle to Jason Smith in the last two minutes that cost us victory v Hull at the JJB. Why not? It was his fault!

That doesn't mean I think he was rubbish.

OTOH I do think Wigan were exposed tonight as not having a squad good enough to complete. Several players are just not good enough either becuase they are too young or just are not good enough. They may put the effort in but if effort won matches I dare say Leigh would be top of SL.

Effort is fine but without execution it counts for nothing.

Dave

jinkin jimmy · Post by **jinkin jimmy** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 2:38 am

hayley 04 posted:
Give it a rest about blaming individual players. I don't want another week of defending Danny Orr when this time he never had a chance to do anything as he spent all his time tackling. At least he had the courage to continue after that heartstopping moment when we all thought he had done some serious damage. Bet you wouldn't have got back up and carried on. If you think you can do better than those boys out there start lacing up your boots and get on with it! Stop critising coz you can't do any better.

Hayley, time to smell the coffee. Your hero was as bad tonight as i've seen him.When are you ever going to be big enough to admit your totally blind loyalty has been misplaced?

His wasn't the only poor performance tonight, but how long do we have to wait? First, it's Farrell's fault for hogging the play, next it's because we keep changing his half back partner. Sooner or later even you may one day take off the Orr tinted glasses and realise he is not the real deal.

In the past you have called him "the great and gifted" and "the great man" - wouldn't lke to read you when you are exaggerating (sp)!!

Finally with regard to all the comments about people leaving early there is another way of looking at it. People pay their money and makes their choice. If they are voting with their feet that is their perogative. Also, getting out of a packed stand at an all seater stadium can take ages if you are on the upper rows, so don't slag people off for wanting to get away early - they don't all live in Wigan you know, some have a distance to drive.

Finally, who is the real supporter - one who misses the last 5 mins or one who misses the ko because they are in the bar then goes to the toilet twice in the 1st half, then misses the 2nd half ko, does the toilet thing again but is drunk enough to stay to the end? I witnessed that tonight, as I do every game.

we_need_a_coach · Post by **we_need_a_coach** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:14 am

hayley 04 posted:
Blaming individual players isn't going to solve anything. We had a bad loss tonight and we've got to pick ourselves up and fight back. For a long time om this message board it's been said we need another couple of props and i've always brushed it off but after tonight we are getting desperate. Jerry and Jerome were wonderful but they can't go on for 80 mins without a break and the young kids who are coming on are just as good but not big enough or experienced enough to control the pack. If the pack don't control the game we are on the backfoot and can't get anywhere in attack. The entire back's from 1 to 7 spent all night tackling they never got a chance to open any attack and now is not the time to start throwing insults at individuals. Until the pack get's sorted i can't see a way forward for us. I've always been a believer in Maurice Lindsay but my support for him is beginning to waver. I don't understand what he's playing at. Surely it doesn't take a genius to realise what we need even if we only sign them on a short term contract it will help for this season. I'm very disappointed but remain very proud of my boys!

Two points, firstly Seuseu and Guissett are not good enough, you say they where wonderful, I can't agree, they put in the effort, but I'm afraid they just can't cut it at this level, nothing comes from them at all(no skill).
Secondly, if it has taken until now to realise that MO is no longer the driving force that he once thought he was ! then you must be on something.
MO is no longer a figure head at Wigan, we very rarely hear from him on the radio, or see him on TV.
The rumours of him leaving and settling in Australia IMO must be true, is he brokering the move of Carney to Souths ??

Alex the Warrior · Post by **Alex the Warrior** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 11:15 am

hayley 04 posted
Bet you wouldn't have got back up and carried on. If you think you can do better than those boys out there start lacing up your boots and get on with it! Stop critising coz you can't do any better

What a ridiculous attitude. I don't get paid to play rugby by the greatest club in the history of the game, therefore my ability to play is of no relevance whatsoever. Danny Orr does, and the number of reasonable games he has had since he's been here can be counted on one hand.

If I go into work and perform as badly for the next 18 months and get fired, should I tell my boss not to criticise because he can't do what my job entails?

We will be fortunate to make the play offs this season. Now there are people to blame for that and we're entitled to point the finger. Live with it!

Alex the Warrior · Post by **Alex the Warrior** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 11:24 am

jinkin' jimmy posted
Finally with regard to all the comments about people leaving early there is another way of looking at it. People pay their money and makes their choice. If they are voting with their feet that is their perogative. Also, getting out of a packed stand at an all seater stadium can take ages if you are on the upper rows, so don't slag people off for wanting to get away early - they don't all live in Wigan you know, some have a distance to drive.

Finally, who is the real supporter - one who misses the last 5 mins or one who misses the ko because they are in the bar then goes to the toilet twice in the 1st half, then misses the 2nd half ko, does the toilet thing again but is drunk enough to stay to the end? I witnessed that tonight, as I do every game.

Yes, this attitude that real supporters don't leave before the end is a tiresome one. Forgive me everyone for I have sinned. I left with 2 minutes on the clock. I didn't want to be stuck in the car park for half an hour before having to go shopping in Tescos then drive 20 miles home. It was just before half 11 when I got home as it was.

If after this dismal season has been and gone, my backside is not on seat R187 all through next season again, then people can call my support. Until then, they can put a sock in it.

P.S. Thanks for reminding me about Jimmy Fairhurst NOT!