My Oppinion

[ChrisA]

Tonights games showed us where we are at as a team currently.

We have a sqaud of players who are 100% commited to the cause and will fight for the full 80.
But, currently as shown tonight, commitment is not enough, Leeds showed us that tonight, they showed the same commitment that we have shown so far this season, but they have the players to hit you hard and score points when they get chance. Thats the difference, they just have alot more quality throughout the side.

We are way to lightweight in the forwards, they are just getting outplayed by the better sides in the league, we dont have much go forward, none of them really look like they are going to brake a tackle. Tonight we struggled to get out of our own half for much of the game. If you looked at the Leeds centres both of them where bigger than any of our back rowers, we are just not big enough.

Our halves havnt performed yet as a pairing, I dont doubt any of them as class players, I blame this partly on the forwards not laying any sort of platform, we never have teams on the backfoot so our halves are always up against it. But theres going to come a point very soon when they really need to stand up and make a diference.

We are missing Carney alot, hes the only player whos capable of scoring from deep in our own half, Dallas doesnt carry that threat any more, hes fast over a short distance but hes not a length of the field man any more.

Farrel leaving is just about a big a blow as a team can take, and then to have his replacement out for the season is just devastating, add to that Hock being out for the season and thats our entire first choice back row gone.

So basically we are in a bad situation, our young players are willing and commited, but at present theres just to many of them being thrown in, I know it cant be helped, but its just not gonna be enough we just wont be able to challenge the big sides for honours this season.

We need to try and make a few top signings, where from and who I dont know, that is the big question that nobody has the answer to. I just fear for us this season, like i say we have the commitment no doubt, we just dont have the quality to back it up.

[GeoffN]

That's a much better summing up than most of the ones on here that I've read so far!
The problem yet again is the lack of size available to come off the bench - we were well in the game for an hour until our forwards were worn down (and that crazy missed kickoff) but we lacked a Sculthorpe or a Hock to relieve the front 2.
Moran started well, creating both tries, but then his lack of match fitness started to show. Yet again Brown proved he's not a centre, and aspi's not a winger!

[DaveO]

ChrisA posted:
Tonights games showed us where we are at as a team currently.

We have a sqaud of players who are 100% commited to the cause and will fight for the full 80.
But, currently as shown tonight, commitment is not enough, Leeds showed us that tonight, they showed the same commitment that we have shown so far this season, but they have the players to hit you hard and score points when they get chance. Thats the difference, they just have alot more quality throughout the side.

We are way to lightweight in the forwards, they are just getting outplayed by the better sides in the league, we dont have much go forward, none of them really look like they are going to brake a tackle. Tonight we struggled to get out of our own half for much of the game. If you looked at the Leeds centres both of them where bigger than any of our back rowers, we are just not big enough.

Our halves havnt performed yet as a pairing, I dont doubt any of them as class players, I blame this partly on the forwards not laying any sort of platform, we never have teams on the backfoot so our halves are always up against it. But theres going to come a point very soon when they really need to stand up and make a diference.

We are missing Carney alot, hes the only player whos capable of scoring from deep in our own half, Dallas doesnt carry that threat any more, hes fast over a short distance but hes not a length of the field man any more.

Farrel leaving is just about a big a blow as a team can take, and then to have his replacement out for the season is just devastating, add to that Hock being out for the season and thats our entire first choice back row gone.

So basically we are in a bad situation, our young players are willing and commited, but at present theres just to many of them being thrown in, I know it cant be helped, but its just not gonna be enough we just wont be able to challenge the big sides for honours this season.

We need to try and make a few top signings, where from and who I dont know, that is the big question that nobody has the answer to. I just fear for us this season, like i say we have the commitment no doubt, we just dont have the quality to back it up.

I don't make a habit of quoting entire posts as long as that but I think I should because it is spot on all the way through.

It highlights everything about the currect state of the team and does not let the fact the players are committed eclipse the fact the team as a whole isn't up to it.

You make a good point about the half backs as well. Yes the forwards are struggling but a chip kick?

Fair do's though. Moran tried something different (when he ought not have, first tackle) when he made his break and tried to kick and it didn't come off so he can't win! No platform and trying something himself fails.

Dave

[DaveO]

GeoffN posted:Yet again Brown proved he's not a centre, and aspi's not a winger!

I said to my Dad before the game it was a mistake if the squad as posted by the club went in those positions because it meant Brown as a centre.

Against Leeds? FFS they have two huge centres and we put Brown against them?

If Betts won't play Aspy at centre in preference to Brown what does that say about Betts views on Aspy?

Not much! Unless he is deluded into thinking Colbon can't hack the wing slot, which IMO he can.

The 3/4 line selection was a mistake by Betts.

Dave

[ChrisA]

Im not living in the past here, but if you look at the sqaud we had 10 years ago, Aspinwall and Brown would not even make the bench, and these are the only players really with Wild who are vying for a centre spot. We have gone backwards imho, fair enough you can blame the salary cap for the wages we are allowed to pay, but the players coming through are all steady eddies and all in the same mould, theres no world beaters, no Edwards or Gregory or Hanley, no Offiahs, Robinsons or Lydons, players with flare and genuine class who teams fear, and that you cannot blame on the salary cap.

[GeoffN]

DaveO posted:
It highlights everything about the currect state of the team and does not let the fact the players are committed eclipse the fact the team as a whole isn't up to it.

Dave

But the team isn't "as a whole", that's the problem!
Take 4 forwards and a winger away from the Leeds squad, have both halves just back from injury, and see how well they'd do then?
If Carney and Scully had been in the side, and if we'd had a halfway decent ref, we'd have won tonight.

[DaveO]

ChrisA posted:
Im not living in the past here, but if you look at the sqaud we had 10 years ago, Aspinwall and Brown would not even make the bench, and these are the only players really with Wild who are vying for a centre spot. We have gone backwards imho, fair enough you can blame the salary cap for the wages we are allowed to pay, but the players coming through are all steady eddies and all in the same mould, theres no world beaters, no Edwards or Gregory or Hanley, no Offiahs, Robinsons or Lydons, players with flare and genuine class who teams fear, and that you cannot blame on the salary cap.

The only player we have with genuine flair is Carney and all the talk is of when will he leave.

A short time ago I watched a video of the "mission impossible" season - '94 I think and the standard of play was higher than it is now by a long chalk.

The thing is quite a few of that side (and other sides of the glory years) came through the youth ranks at Wigan or were Wiganers brought back to the club (as Tickle and Newton have been).

What I am saying is this idea of producing our own players is not new. So the problem is the steddie eddie type we produce now.

Dave

[ChrisA]

DaveO posted:

ChrisA posted:
Im not living in the past here, but if you look at the sqaud we had 10 years ago, Aspinwall and Brown would not even make the bench, and these are the only players really with Wild who are vying for a centre spot. We have gone backwards imho, fair enough you can blame the salary cap for the wages we are allowed to pay, but the players coming through are all steady eddies and all in the same mould, theres no world beaters, no Edwards or Gregory or Hanley, no Offiahs, Robinsons or Lydons, players with flare and genuine class who teams fear, and that you cannot blame on the salary cap.

The only player we have with genuine flair is Carney and all the talk is of when will he leave.

A short time ago I watched a video of the "mission impossible" season - '94 I think and the standard of play was higher than it is now by a long chalk.

The thing is quite a few of that side (and other sides of the glory years) came through the youth ranks at Wigan or were Wiganers brought back to the club (as Tickle and Newton have been).

What I am saying is this idea of producing our own players is not new. So the problem is the steddie eddie type we produce now.

Dave

Totally agree, in past sides we have had flare all over the pitch, we have had match winners all over the park, players who could make a break and run 70 yards, people who could spot a half chance and turn it into a try from nothing, we dont have that now. To be honest at times our attack is just plain boring and abysmal to watch, we stand to flat, we have very little movement off the ball and we have no dummy runners, its no wonder our halves look bad, they have nothing to work with. they are running around looking for runners who are never there, and if they are they are taking the ball flat, and a guy takin the ball stood still is never going to break the line is he. We make it so easy for the oppostion to read our play because theres no variation, its just mostly one man rugby with a kick at the end. Then when we fall behind and we have to score points we really start to struggle, we try to force the pass because the things we do noramlly arnt enough to break the opposition down, we seem pretty clueless in how to break down decent defences.

To be honest the more I think about it the more down hearted I get, beacuse we dont have the quality that we are used to and we arnt even trying to play good rugby as a team to try and compensate for the individual lack of talent the we are so clearly missing.

This isnt a knee jerk reaction from tonights result, these are things ive felt for a few seasons now unfortunatly. For to long now weve been second best to a fair few teams when it comes down to it in various finals and big matches, and now we are not even gonna get that close with the team we have now.

[we_need_a_coach]

I'm in total agreement with everything you all say ! I have been pilloried for saying the same thing, in a more negative and controversial way maybe, last night highlighted the major problems now at our club, Betts tactics where again dismal.
We are under weight, and lacking in class, experience and tactical awareness. If he keeps on sending our players out with the tactic of going all out untill we drop, then allowing the opposition to score at will, I to am frightened for us this season.
Seuseu was looking for Mcdermott from the start, Guissett runs is tackled, then drops to his knees, brilliant.

We are to small, we need experience, and we need a coach !

[Exiled Wiganer]

wnac - you are too harsh.

Guisset has played very well since joining us. Far better than we could have hoped. Seu Seu does a job. We are far too small, but that's not Betts' fault. He is not head coach, he does not buy the players, he did not sell Faz, he cannot help Hock and Lockers being injured.

As to the players we have, most of them deserve our support more than ever. I have nothing but admiration for the young lads.

Looking at the older heads, to my mind (ignoring the props for now) only Newton and Rads have yet shown any leadership skills. Scully and Carney have been injured, let's assume legitimately, so often and for so long we cannot rely on them to turn us round. Orr and Moran do not deserve to pick up their pay cheques. Bring on Coyle and Brown. DV is a curate's egg, but last night he may as well not have been there.

At my most pessimistic last night I concluded that our team could only confidently go into games against Leigh and Widnes expecting to win. In every other case, our forwards could not be relied upon to get on top. Pretty dire, really. Had we lost against Saints and FC in games we won against the odds, we would be 10th. I am not so sure that's far from a fair position. We are possibly still stronger than Salford, were clearly second best against London and Huddersfield... (as I say, this is at my most pessimistic).

God help us against the Bulls.