Rules Changes

[ChrisA]

In my oppinion the game I love is not as good to watch as it used to be, the reasons I put it down to I will list below.

First off and this is the biggest reason in my mind

Changing the play the offside rule at the play the ball from 5 yards to 10 yards.

The reason this has detracted from the game, back when we had the 5 yard rule, teams had to have a much deeper line when in attack, they didnt have the time they have now, they had to stand deeper so they had chance to hit the ball running, the half backs had to be clever back then, ppl like gregory stood out because they had so much vison and awareness of what was going on, because teams stood deeper they always had players hitting the ball running, they always had runners and options. Basically you had to play a more clever attacking game if you wanted to break the oppositions defence because you didnt have the room that you have now, teams where in your face in half the time they are now.

Nowadays, teams dont have to stand deep because they get the 10 yards in which to work, so the emphasis changed from opening teams with with clever attacking rugby, to just making the hard yards, its all forward play nowadays, the half backs dont need to be clever like they where when we had the 5 yard rule. Halves nowadays need to be fast over the ground, it doesnt really matter as much how good you are with the ball, this is obvious when you look at the likes of Long and Mcguire, these guys arnt magical with the ball like Edwards, Gregory, Tony Myler or Alex Murphy used to be. The games changed in this respect and not for the better.

Secondly the scrums are a joke, the forwards dont even pack down proper anymore, they donyt bind at all, they dont need to do because the ball isnt fed properly anymore and thats considered the standard nowadays. So with this happening, once the ball breaks from the scrum, the forwards have broken away from the scrum and are often the 1st guy making the tackle. Theres no room or time anymore for the halves to get a move going from the scrum, because the space that should be there isnt because there forwards arnt tied into the scrum anymore.

Aswel as this as a result of the above, theres no real great centre play anymore, the centres are not what I class as centres, they dont look to setup their wingers properly, often they only pass when they run out of options, you look at how Miles and Connolly used to base their game on setting up Offiah, they where totaly unselfish and knew how to suck opposing players in to give offiah space in which to run.

And also the wingers who play now, none really apart from Carney have the pace or confidence to go on the outside, they cant use the touchline like all the great wingers in the past could do, you dont see wingers going 80 yards down the touchline anymore, and that is the greatest thing you can see in our game, a winger with phenomenal pace flying down that wing, there just isnt a better site, but you just dont get that anymore, because the centres dont give them the opportunity to do it, and if they do, they just dont have the pace or confidence to do it.

Anyway, ive listed my reasons, let me know what you all think, I am aware that some on this site will have no idea what im talking about because they have either never played the game or are to young to understand the points I made regarding the rules and what it was like before.

[we_need_a_coach]

Irecon we need a new rule, this willsay :

1. The chairman of any SL club must be up to the job.

2. The manager of any SL Club must have a clue, and must always give his players TicTacs !

[jinkin jimmy]

Is it safe to assume the full backs are OK then ChrisA?

[AncientWarrior]

I think you will find that all rule changes since about 1970 have originated in Australia. In my cynical opinion, this is because the changes suit the Aussie game and the TV exposure over there. It does not necessarily follow that the British game will benefit by them and in many of the cases you outline, there has definitely been a detrimental effect.
There is a very good video which was released some years ago about the history of GB tours to Australia and a recurring theme on the occasions that we beat them was the prominence played by the GB halfbacks. In particular, Alex Murphy, Roger Millward and Andy Gregory were able to unlock strong Aussie defences and make the platform for a win.
In respect of rules and admin changes, the Aussies lead and we follow like sheep. But then again, neither administration controls the game, Sky does!!!![/u]

[Welski]

ChrisA posted:
In my oppinion the game I love is not as good to watch as it used to be, the reasons I put it down to I will list below.

First off and this is the biggest reason in my mind

Changing the play the offside rule at the play the ball from 5 yards to 10 yards.

The reason this has detracted from the game, back when we had the 5 yard rule, teams had to have a much deeper line when in attack, they didnt have the time they have now, they had to stand deeper so they had chance to hit the ball running, the half backs had to be clever back then, ppl like gregory stood out because they had so much vison and awareness of what was going on, because teams stood deeper they always had players hitting the ball running, they always had runners and options. Basically you had to play a more clever attacking game if you wanted to break the oppositions defence because you didnt have the room that you have now, teams where in your face in half the time they are now.

Nowadays, teams dont have to stand deep because they get the 10 yards in which to work, so the emphasis changed from opening teams with with clever attacking rugby, to just making the hard yards, its all forward play nowadays, the half backs dont need to be clever like they where when we had the 5 yard rule. Halves nowadays need to be fast over the ground, it doesnt really matter as much how good you are with the ball, this is obvious when you look at the likes of Long and Mcguire, these guys arnt magical with the ball like Edwards, Gregory, Tony Myler or Alex Murphy used to be. The games changed in this respect and not for the better.

Secondly the scrums are a joke, the forwards dont even pack down proper anymore, they donyt bind at all, they dont need to do because the ball isnt fed properly anymore and thats considered the standard nowadays. So with this happening, once the ball breaks from the scrum, the forwards have broken away from the scrum and are often the 1st guy making the tackle. Theres no room or time anymore for the halves to get a move going from the scrum, because the space that should be there isnt because there forwards arnt tied into the scrum anymore.

Aswel as this as a result of the above, theres no real great centre play anymore, the centres are not what I class as centres, they dont look to setup their wingers properly, often they only pass when they run out of options, you look at how Miles and Connolly used to base their game on setting up Offiah, they where totaly unselfish and knew how to suck opposing players in to give offiah space in which to run.

And also the wingers who play now, none really apart from Carney have the pace or confidence to go on the outside, they cant use the touchline like all the great wingers in the past could do, you dont see wingers going 80 yards down the touchline anymore, and that is the greatest thing you can see in our game, a winger with phenomenal pace flying down that wing, there just isnt a better site, but you just dont get that anymore, because the centres dont give them the opportunity to do it, and if they do, they just dont have the pace or confidence to do it.

Anyway, ive listed my reasons, let me know what you all think, I am aware that some on this site will have no idea what im talking about because they have either never played the game or are to young to understand the points I made regarding the rules and what it was like before.

Some interesting points as I said elsewhere I still believe you need the quality of player whatever the rules which at the moment the game in the UK doesn't have.

Incidentally I have to disagree with your final point. One doesn't necessarily have had to play a sport to understand the subtleties.

[DaveO]

ChrisA posted:
In my oppinion the game I love is not as good to watch as it used to be, the reasons I put it down to I will list below.

I certainly agree with what you say abou the 10 meter rule. I remember saying much the same at the time it came in.

You might be interested in some rule changes that are to be made about now. There are four I think mostly relating to discipline and back chatting to the referee but one is a complete disaster from a playing point of view.

This is the idea of a "dominant" tackle. The idea behind this is to prevent the attcking player going to ground quickly in order to get a quick play the ball.

So if he drops to the feet of the defender or if once the defender(s) have hold of him he drops to the ground to get the tackle completed, then the referee will call "dominant".

This will allow the defenders a little more time to complete the tackle and thus the defence to set themselves ready for the next PTB.

I think it's stupid. For a start taking a voluntary tackle is already illegal so there is already a law to prevent players taking a dive.

Secondly it will just infuriate fans as they won't know if "dominant" has been called and so will assume the defenders are lying on.

In fact to me this change promotes lying on when the ref calls dominant.

The PTB in the UK is a mess as it is but this will slow it down even further. Din't know if this came in from autralia or not. It could be Cummings messing about with the rules but whererver it came from it is stupid IMO.

Dave

[jinkin jimmy]

Came from Aus I think. Heard their refs shouting "dominant" all last season and didn't know what they were on about.

[Welski]

DaveO posted:

ChrisA posted:
The PTB in the UK is a mess as it is but this will slow it down even further. Din't know if this came in from autralia or not. It could be Cummings messing about with the rules but whererver it came from it is stupid IMO.

Dave

From Australia mate....Some interesting views here:
http://rl1908.com/Rugby-League-News/defence.htm

[DaveO]

Welski posted:

DaveO posted:

ChrisA posted:
The PTB in the UK is a mess as it is but this will slow it down even further. Din't know if this came in from autralia or not. It could be Cummings messing about with the rules but whererver it came from it is stupid IMO.

Dave

From Australia mate....Some interesting views here:
http://rl1908.com/Rugby-League-News/defence.htm

I have read it and this bit caught my eye:

"The Roosters have enjoyed a great run over the past two months because they have employed this in-your-face defence better than most other teams. Their style has been encouraged by referees.

We played the ball just over 200 times in the semi-final loss to them and received just one holding down penalty and one penalty for off-side. "

The lack of teams being penalised for offside and holding down is already too common in our game IMO.

According to the article the idea behind the dominant tackle in Australia was to help swing the balance back toward the defence as rules like the 10m rule were considered giving too much advantage to the attack.

So it seems we have come full circle back to ChrisA's post. He complains about the 10m rule, the powers that be think it is giving too much advantage tot the attack but the latter, instead of reverting to a 5m rule bring in yet more rules open to interpretation to fix the problem!

Instead of basically allowing lying on and playing a "short" 10m as the article suggest, which are both contrary to the rules as written down, why don't they just revert to 5m?

One of the things about RL that made me prefer it to RU years ago was the rules meant you did not have to ignore half of them to have a decent game of Rugby.

It seems to me with "dominant" tackles you are ignoring the lying on rule, with a short 10m rule you are ignoring the offside rule. We already seem to ignore forward passes.

This can change from one week to the next depending who is reffing.

I teach for the Open University in my spare time and my message to my students at the start of the course is KISS. Keep It Simple, Stupid. I think the RFL could try a bit of that and stop adding vague rules that are required to correct changes previously made.

Dave

[Welski]

Class post mate.