Go easy on Ben - It's only a game!!

[TrueBlueWarrior]

I think we should do all we can to support Flower as a person. Make sure he gets the best advice and knows that the club does not believe he is a bad person.
When the dust has settled, I think we should sell him. He has brought shame onto our great club. His behaviour cost us a Grand Final, and they do not come along very often. It was painfully obvious that we could not have lost that game with 13 men.
One problem with our recruitment is that, in players like Dudson, Flower, Sarg and Clubb we have too many people who have learnt the game later in life. The sort of discipline and balance we see instinctively from the likes of Bateman and Joel aren't there under the most red hot pressure.
I do not say this lightly and wish him well, but I would not be unhappy to see him never play for our club again, and certainly can't see any merit in his ever playing against Saints again, as the potential for them to wind up him, the rest of the team and the crowd in the certain knowledge that any indiscretions on their part will be excused and any on ours will be magnified is great.
Flower lost us a certain victory on Saturday, tarnished the reputation of a wonderful institution, and made our job for years to come to win trophies far more difficult.

To end where I began, as far as Flower the man is concerned, he must feel awful, and which of us has not done something in a moment of madness that we regret for a long time afterwards. Consistent with due legal process we owe it to him to stand by him until he has come to terms with the inevitibly harsh punishment coming his way.

I hope you are joking? A guy makes an error & you want to get rid?? That's your first line of attack, then at the end you say to stand by him! Which is it??

Absolutely crazy!

I'm sick to death of all these holier than thou people who have never made an error of judgment in two explosive seconds in their lives!

Get off the bloody persecution bandwagon! The guy was/is devastated by it & it is totally out of character.

It's gone, get over it everyone.

Ben & the club will learn from this.

Well said Josie!!

[KaylaRobbo]

I'm getting fed up with this now. Ben Flower did not lose us the GF, Yes it was a contributing factor, but too many chances to score were squandered, we should have been miles in front by half time, who is to say categorically had Ben still been on the pitch we would definitely found a way to score more and didn't drop the ball, or mess up plays? No-one it is all guesswork. There were many different factors throughout the game (and before kick off ie MM not being available) that conspired to see us lose. We may still have lost if the incident didn't happen. We may have won if Bentham red carded Hohaiha (Or whatever his name is,) nobody knows unless they are clairvoyant or omnipotent.

Did Ben do something utterly stupid? Yes
Does he carry the blame for going OTT with the second punch? Yes with mitigating circumstances
Does he deserve punishment? Yes
Does he deserve the sole blame and vilification on here and elsewhere for losing the Grand Final? No

Thank goodness for some sense!!!!!

[Exiled Wiganer]

Hi Josie - they aren't mutually exclusive ideas at all. I very much hope that whatever the game does with him, his mental state is taken into account, and he is supported and has the chance to redeem himself. The last thing we want are mental scars.
I love this club, and hate the way that this incident has damaged its reputation. But, I watch the team, and support the whole squad. We may feel sorry for him, indeed we must, but what about, say George Williams, who may never play again in a final (I hope he plays in hundreds for us), whose chance was lost through this action. I am not saying people shouldn't be protective, but we have had long threads on, eg, Sarginson should go, when the damage Sarg inflicted on the team and the club was virtually non existent.
I would like Wigan to win lots of games next year, and show how good a club and team we are. I am not convinced that keeping Flower will help us do so.
It's not as if he won't find another home. As I wrote before I think Salford would have him.

[morley pie eater]

All this 'he cost us the game' is ifs and buts.

No it's not. It a fact. None of what you said after this happened. Flower getting sent off did and everything else flows from there. It really is that simple.

He cost us the game. Everybody else knows he did including Ben Flower!

There is no way on earth he isn't going to get punished for it and IMO the club needs to sanction him as well.

Talk of his rehabilitation before he has even been banned is premature.

The club has made a right mess of the publicity of this with the documentary and all the work IL did of getting Wigan "liked" again following on from the DW reign has gone up in smoke.

We are now a team of thugs and everyone is jumping on the bandwagon.

And this will stay with him for the rest for his career and why would you expect otherwise? Just like Don Fox will never forget missing a kick to win the cup final in front of the sticks. He will have to deal with it and the best way is to take the punishment and carry on playing afterwards.

Flower is not the victim here.

One of us must be going soft, Dave, cos I almost find myself agreeing with you here!

I can understand posts saying Flower was an idiot etc, and also those who try to empathise with Ben. Imo there's not necessarily a conflict between the two - it's possible to think he was totally wrong and cost us the game, and at the same time (especially in view of his "confession"/apology) to feel sorry for what the lad faces in future.

[The booze hound]

Dave if it was a fact that a man being sent loses a team a game then can you explain how teams a man down frequently play better (inspired) and often win the game.

I have been sent off several times in my lifetime and my team never lost the match. Several dismissals involved a match where several of my teammates were colleagues of many of the opposition team. The game lacked intensity until I would ignite it usually being dismissed. Minus me the captain, the team raised their effort and intensity.

CP, being the captain could you not have inspired your team by doing something that didn't warrant a sending off? If being a man down inspires a team why not have your worst player to punch someone infront of the ref in the first minute? Did having Flower sent off inspire us on Saturday? I don't think so.

[Wikimann]

As far as I'm concerned,The only definitive thing clearly highlighted by being reduced to 12 on saturday for almost a full game,is just how dire the new "not so super" league champions truly are! If we had been facing Wire or even the Sheepsh****** from over the hills,we would of conceded 30 points!! As it was we stayed well in touch all game & let us not forget,bombed a couple of good opps ourselves to actually have still won it! anyone arriving 5 mins after kick off would have been hard pressed to know we were actually a man down. If the Bunnies come over & take it seriously on the langtree cabbage patch next February i'd give them a 40 point margin over possibly the worst northern hemisphere champions i can recall.