Our Youngsters

[ChrisA]

I thought I would make a thread on this to see what you all think about our young lads, what potential they have, have they shown it yet, do you think they will given time ?

Martin Aspinwall - not young anymore really is he, he’s had plenty of time to show what he can do, whilst always running his heart out, he’s never really impressed me, he’s a bit of a head down and run and then pass when he’s run out of options. He isn’t fast enough for the wing, and he’s doesn’t have the vision or creativeness to be a centre.

Stephen Wilde - Again he’s not a youngster anymore, he’s been around a while now, compared to Aspy this guy has impressed me, he’s got very good pace, very deceptive actually once he gets in the clear, he’s very strong and his defence is pretty solid, but he needs to wisen up with the ball and realise that he has a winger outside him, and that its his job to give that winger plenty of good running opportunities.

Kevin Brown - Like somebody else said in another post, we where lead to believe by uncle Mo that this guy was the next Shaun Edwards, a future G.B stand off, well to me he has shown nothing to me to prove any of that hype, he’s been very indifferent I feel, he’s prone to mistakes, he’s not very strong and his passing at times is wayward. He’s 20 now, compare that to a 20 year old Shaun Edwards, and there’s a huge difference.

Sean O'Loughlin - Well we have all seen how good this guy is already, he’s been awesome for us last season and the start of this season, great with the ball in hand, very creative, very strong and quite pacey for a loose forward, and his defence is spot on, always near the top of the tackle count.

Bob Beswick - Tenacious little player, but little being the operative word, he just doesn’t look big enough for a back rower to me, ive never seen him running out wide and breaking the line like all good back rowers do, he used to be a hooker but we don’t need a hooker so I feel he could be allowed to leave.

Harrison Hansen - This guy has got potential no doubt about it, but has another who isn’t big enough yet to really mix it up with the bigger packs in Super League, he has time though as he is very young, he has plenty of pace, and has quite good with the ball, and his defence is solid as a rock, and has got heart which always impresses me.

Wayne Godwin - Again not so young anymore, but already a quality hooker who proved with Cas last season has ready for super league, he’s busy little player who causes problems for defences, he has a good low centre of gravity around the rucks and the bigger guys dont like that to much, always likely to make a break from acting half, and he has good awareness when he does.

Gareth Hock - Yet again not to young, but we have already seen that he’s gonna be one of the best back rowers in Super League, he’s one of the few players we have who knows how to hit a gap with pace, he’s very strong for his build and has a very good offload.

Danny Tickle - hard to believe he’s been playing Super League for nearly 5 seasons now, he was good at Halifax, but he’s improved alot since we signed him, one worry I had about him was his defence, last season he was going to high and getting hand off or bumped off to many times, but he’s worked on his technique and sorted that out this season, he’s got good go forward and good ball skills, add his goal kicking to that and you have a very good all round player.

David Allen - he’s not really had to much game time so far, but again he’s not very big at all for a back rower, but hes got time to fill out and lets hope he does.

Then you have Chris melling, Bryn Hargreaves, James Coyle, Liam Colbon, Paul Prescott and Joel Tomkins who have yet to play regular enough for us to gather any real opinion.

P.S Ignore any typo's or spelling errors, im too bored to proof read it now.

[Pies R Us]

Well Chris A.

Martin Aspinwall - Never really impressed me. Spends to much time running sideways for my liking. Hasn't got the size or hands for a centre, or the knowhow or speed to be a winger. Nothing more than a squad player. Wouldn't miss him if he left.

Stephen Wild - Has showed glimpses of brilliance, backed up by moments of madness. I am sure he would improve even more if his preferred position was decided (second row/loose forward for me). Worth keeping hold of.

Kevin Brown - Enough said. Young - yes. Good - NO. Show him the door. Never impressed me.

Sean O'Loughlin - Enough said. Brilliant. Future Wigan and GB captain. We'll miss him the most this season. Brilliant defender and great hands.

Bob Beswick - Good squad player to have. Not sure on his preferred position. As Chris A said, too small for a back-row player - probably suited to hooker. Always gives 100%.

Harrison Hansen - Just been given a new 2 year deal. From what I have seen of him - good player. Not massively built for a back rower - but has a good turn of speed. One for the future.

Wayne Godwin - Quality player. Unfortunately unlikely to get a look in while Terry is at the club. Good hands and turn of pace from the play of the ball. Usefull to have off the bench to target tiring teams.

Gareth Hock - Quality. Will miss him loads this season. A backrower with pass and the eye for a gap. Always likely to make a break out wide and with good hands to offload in the tackle. Put on more weight this off-season which will help. With him and O'Loughlin in our backrow - this can't be bad.

Danny Tickle - Probably one of the most consistant performers at the club. Workrate is amazing. And goalkicking is beginning to be excellent. Never going to set the world alight with breaks, pace or clever offloads. But an allround solid player. We'll need him this season.

Dave Allen - Also gives 100% for such a small lad. Needs to bulk up to make ann impression in our backrow. Nothing more than a squad player at the moment. Probably wouldn't miss him if released.

Chris Melling - Solid, good defence and pace. One for the future.

Liam Colbon - Great pace and size. Great things are expected of him. Shouldn't get too downhearted from his display at Bradford. (More experienced players are playing equally as bad - week in week out). Keep your head up Liam.

I think on paper these youngsters will do ok for us. I just reckon in our pack especially we require more experience. Being linked with Bryan Fletcher is a good start. Along with two quality front rowers, a strike centre and a half back with 'X-factor'. (Please go shopping Maurice).

[DaveO]

Good post ChrsA and I agree with most of what you say as regards the players.

I think there are two categories of player in your list. Thise who have had enough game time for us to be forming a solid opinion about their abilities and what position they should play and those that are too raw to form an opinion on.

The players that come into the former list are Aspy, Wilde, Brown, O'Loughlin, Hock, Godwin and Tickle.

The last four in that list are all good players and I am glad they are at the club and some of them may well end up great players. The one comment I would make is that I think Tickle is definately a second rower for the moment as I don't reckon he has the ball handling skills of a 13. But I think he is a very good second rower so what I hope doesn't happen is that he gets played at 13, doesn't do that well and has people calling for his head as a result.

The first three are where the question marks are. As was said compare Brown to Edwards and it is no contest. In fact you can compare him to O'Loughlin. The latter was played at centre, stand off and loose forward and despite that has matured into a GB player. By the end of this season Brown will have notched up close to the same number of games as O'Loughlin and does anyone think he will be knocking on the GB door for thye tri-nations? He will be 21 by the end of the season and I can't see it myself.

He has got to show Rugby brain because he is far too erratic at the moment.

With Aspy and Wilde I reckon this may be their last season to impress. I feel slightly sorry for Aspy as he has been played out of position at wing and so needs time to play centre if we are to judge him in terms of his wortth to the club.

With Wilde I always rated him a good second row player but think he has been outshone for consistency by Hock and Tickle. As a centre, well he isn't one because while he might be fast enough Vaeliki shows what centre play is about and Wilde can't match it.

I'd keep him as a squad player but for the second row.

I am tending to think we need to sign another class centre and if we do, then both Aspy and Wilde could see the door closed.

Then we come to the young raw players. Beswick is supposed to be a hooker and isn't big enough for back row so I can see him leaving. He could be a very good hooker for another club and no doubt if he does leave there will be posts about he will come back to haunt us but what do you do? The club can't have three hookers on the 20/20.

I think the decision the club must make is going to be do we keep the likes of Brown, Aspy and Wilde over Hansen, Allen and the other young players you mention. Hansen is already sorted but I don't think Wilde etc can sleep easy that it will be the likes Allen that are cut and not them.

Dave

[mario]

As you said Chris, Kev Brown is 20. He's covered a variety of positions for the club already and has'nt had much time at stand off. You could compare most players with Edwards at 20 and come up with a huge difference.I agree that sometimes he can be a bit stupid with his passing or lack of it,but maybe it's because he's only a kid.
Lets see Aspy have a run at centre before we judge him. He's played most of his time at Wigan on the wing where everyone agrees is not his best position.
I'd rather have a centre that can tackle than a centre that is going to make a fantastic break and throw it into touch and have no defence.

[ChrisA]

mario posted:
As you said Chris, Kev Brown is 20. He's covered a variety of positions for the club already and has'nt had much time at stand off. You could compare most players with Edwards at 20 and come up with a huge difference.I agree that sometimes he can be a bit stupid with his passing or lack of it,but maybe it's because he's only a kid..

Seriuosly you can tell by the time a player is 20 wether he is really a class act, all the great players show what they can do, they might be abit raw but its there for all to see. Brown hasnt shown me anything at all to convince he is this star in the making, he has played close to 40 games for us now over the last 2 seasons, that is a good number of games, and to me he hasnt really shone at all.

mario posted:
Lets see Aspy have a run at centre before we judge him. He's played most of his time at Wigan on the wing where everyone agrees is not his best position.
I'd rather have a centre that can tackle than a centre that is going to make a fantastic break and throw it into touch and have no defence.

Aspinwall has probably played over a 100 first team games now, thats plenty of time to show what you can do. Like I say when he has played centre, he hasnt looked good enough, he s got no vision at all, he has no idea how to create space for his wingman at all, and he isnt fast enough for the wing. And as for the comment regarding you would rather have a centre who can tackle rather than make a break, good centres can do both, you are not a centre if you cant do both, you cant settle for having one or the other if you want to be a top team, you have to be able to do both, and Aspinwall cant.

[Doveoverdave]

Just proves Stu Rapers point years ago

Aspy - not young

Wilde - not young

Brown - not young

Lockers - not young

Godwin - not young

Tickle - not young

Hock - not young

So the youngsters may be doing ok, it's some of the not so young that may? be the problem. Young or not the best players available represent the club.

IMO all the above are THE best we have at the mo and would warrent 1st team squad selection.

Are they good enough? Not all of them.

[mario]

Vaealiki can't do both and the majority of the time he does'nt do either,but you seem able to give him a chance. Aspy has had nothing like a 100 games and as i said most of his games on the wing.

[Dawber]

you will see tonight against widnes Mario,
i belive aspy is to partner carney and brown to play stand off (both there suited positions i believe) lets see how they go eh?

[mario]

Dawber posted:
you will see tonight against widnes Mario,
i belive aspy is to partner carney and brown to play stand off (both there suited positions i believe) lets see how they go eh?

If they both had good games it would'nt be accepted.
The last time we played Widnes, all we got was " it was only Widnes "

[ChrisA]

mario posted:

Vaealiki can't do both and the majority of the time he does'nt do either,but you seem able to give him a chance. Aspy has had nothing like a 100 games and as i said most of his games on the wing.

Ok 100 was a little high, he has played at least 70 games though including Challenge Cup and friendlies, thats plenty of time to see what a player is made of, this is his 4th season in the 1st team.

Dave V has played 9 games, and he has already shown hes twice the player Aspy is, his major downfall in defence is his rushing out of the line, if he cuts that out he will be fine, compare that to Aspy's major down fall, which is he doesnt have a creative bone in his body, and compare how long the respective players have been here and how many games they have played, your comparison is a bad one im afraid, Aspinwall has had four seasons, he has had his chance to show what he can do, Dave v has had 9 games, and has shown plenty.

Aspy needs to learn how to create space, he needs to learn how to pass properly, he needs to learn when to pass, all these things come natural to a player, it doesnt to him so hes got problems.

Dave V, needs to learn not to rush out of the line, that is much easier to sort out, its much easier to coach.