Betts

[robjoenz]

Doveoverdave posted:

robjoenz posted:

MrsLam posted:
I dread to think waht would have happened if we had lost. How many would have stayed to clap because had we lost, the effort would not have been even clappable. At least we did come back for whatever reason. I sincerely hope Wigan wake up and realise that kind of effort is totally unacceptable.

A lot of people in the East Stand were leaving before the end of the game, it shows who the fickle ones are, those who weren't at work or had to visit relatives that is. I also thought it was terrible to boo your own team off the pitch, I can't understand how anyone with an ounce of intellect would think this will help confidence.

How should the fans make their opinions known?

I find it often shows that we aren't playing well when everyone starts shouting 'come on Wigan' when the ball goes out of play or when the crowd quietens down. Also when we are defending the South end and all the fans chant 'Wigan! Wigan! Wigan!' that often gives support to raise their game.

It is typical of you and your fellow pesimists to not think of positive ways to get your point across.

[GeoffN]

The two people in front of me left when the score was 8-4.

:doz:

[Doveoverdave]

It is typical of you and your fellow pesimists to not think of positive ways to get your point across.[/quote]

Me pessimist as if!!

I predicted a 30 point spread!

[MrsLam]

The WNAC wannabe behind me left when we were drawing towards the end (not as in colouring pens before you clever people start off) and then came back and then when we won left for good. why cant people stay till the end?

[GeoffN]

MrsLam posted:
The WNAC wannabe behind me left when we were drawing towards the end (not as in colouring pens before you clever people start off) and then came back and then when we won left for good. why cant people stay till the end?

I've never understood people that do that.
I've never left a game before the end, in more years than I care to remember (or am able to remember... )

[DaveO]

ChrisA posted:
I am very reluctant to call for his head as the guy is a legend at the club, and is Wigan through and through, but being loyal and defending him isnt the right thing to do.

Got to agree I am afraid. I have in the past questioned his ability to work with a poorer team than he had last year. In a strange sort of way I feel like we are asking him to step aside as opposed to calling for his head. In the end from his point of view, there is not much difference.

It's not his fault at whats happened regarding injuries, poor recruitment and Farrel leaving, the thing is he doenst have the experience to get the best out of whats left to work with, we need someone who has and we need them now.

I agree 100%. I don't think the playing personell we have left are up to winning SL or the Cup by some distance but we should be playing better than we are.

Many of us have questioned the ability of various players be they the product of the Wigan youth system or players that have been brought in.

We all seem to have our "favourite" worst player if you get my drift. But is it their fault?

The performance and result tonight has reinforced the idea in my mind that we could be doing much better with the players we do have. Players like Brown, if thay are as good as the plaudits make out should have had a field day against this lot. If I am right it is down to Betts inability to handle the situation we find ourselves in that we are not getting beter performances from the players.

Dave

[DaveO]

MrsLam posted:
The WNAC wannabe behind me left when we were drawing towards the end (not as in colouring pens before you clever people start off) and then came back and then when we won left for good. why cant people stay till the end?

I don't understand it either. I have a good excuse to leave early. The time it takes to get out of the car park adds a long time to the journey back to Chester so if I left a few minutes earlier I could be home that much quicker.

I never do leave early though. I just can't understand why people do.

Dave

[Fraggle]

DaveO posted:

MrsLam posted:
The WNAC wannabe behind me left when we were drawing towards the end (not as in colouring pens before you clever people start off) and then came back and then when we won left for good. why cant people stay till the end?

I don't understand it either. I have a good excuse to leave early. The time it takes to get out of the car park adds a long time to the journey back to Chester so if I left a few minutes earlier I could be home that much quicker.

I never do leave early though. I just can't understand why people do.

Dave

I stayed until the end of that ill-fated Grand Final against Bradford in 2001, and tonight was the worst game since then and again I've stayed until the end. I've only ever left a rugby match once and that was one of GB's thrashings at the hands of the Kiwis a couple of years ago, I've no particular loyalty to GB and was thoroughly peed off with the event. The car park excuse didn't wash tonight. With only 5000 there, the car parks were half empty and there was absolutely no queue at all to get out from next the health club/opposite Kudos. I can't understand the mentality of going to a match and leaving before the result is known, which was the case tonight. Do people get a 50p refund if they're out of there before the hooter?

[Fraggle]

DaveO posted:

It's not his fault at whats happened regarding injuries, poor recruitment and Farrel leaving, the thing is he doenst have the experience to get the best out of whats left to work with, we need someone who has and we need them now.

I agree 100%. I don't think the playing personell we have left are up to winning SL or the Cup by some distance but we should be playing better than we are.

Many of us have questioned the ability of various players be they the product of the Wigan youth system or players that have been brought in.

We all seem to have our "favourite" worst player if you get my drift. But is it their fault?

The performance and result tonight has reinforced the idea in my mind that we could be doing much better with the players we do have. Players like Brown, if thay are as good as the plaudits make out should have had a field day against this lot. If I am right it is down to Betts inability to handle the situation we find ourselves in that we are not getting beter performances from the players.

Dave

I'd have to agree with this. Tonight we looked leaderless, and regardless of Newton being captain there was nobody taking the game by the scruff of the neck and trying something different. I'm sure Betts can't have been telling them to play one-man rugby all night, and with the experience of many of the players in that team (including many of the youngsters) there should have been someone willing to say "come on, let's try something different". What use are Orr, Moran, Newton and the rest if they are not capable of thinking for themselves occasionally. We know they can do this kind of thinking, they've done it in the past. Have they all suddenly turned into robots incapable of independant thought?

Betts' substitutions also bemused me. Things are not going well, so what does he do? Keeps swapping props around. There's no creativity from anyone, yet he waits about an hour before bringing on Godwin. Ok, there wasn't a massive improvement but we seemed to have a few more ideas and options when Godwin came on and there was a bit more flow and movement. Changing props doesn't have that effect, and he should have brought on Godwin in the first half as well to change things around a bit.

So are the players deliberately not responding to Betts? Or are they totally reliant on Betts and he's not giving them the right instructions? Difficult to know, but something's definitely not right there. It's easy to criticise the coach, but he's not solely to blame for that display tonight. He's got to expect the players to be able to do the basics of pass and catch a ball, that's basic schoolboy stuff yet it seems a struggle at times for our players.

[Ron]

Well said! You hit the nail on the head.