Complete the following sequence...

[GeoffN]

Dorahey, West, Hughes, Monie, Goodway, Endicott, Raper, Gregory, Betts...?

The "coach of the year" award clearly has a different meaning for us.
Seems to me that the successful clubs keep their coaches for more than a year.

[DaveO]

GeoffN posted:

Seems to me that the successful clubs keep their coaches for more than a year.

But we aren't successful.

Dave

[GeoffN]

DaveO posted:

GeoffN posted:

Seems to me that the successful clubs keep their coaches for more than a year.

But we aren't successful.

Dave

My point, exactly. Cause and effect?

[mike binder]

GeoffN posted:
Dorahey, West, Hughes, Monie, Goodway, Endicott, Raper, Gregory, Betts...?

The "coach of the year" award clearly has a different meaning for us.
Seems to me that the successful clubs keep their coaches for more than a year.

farrar

[Mike]

GeoffN posted:
Dorahey, West, Hughes, Monie, Goodway, Endicott, Raper, Gregory, Betts...?

Millward?????

[DaveO]

GeoffN posted:

DaveO posted:

GeoffN posted:

Seems to me that the successful clubs keep their coaches for more than a year.

But we aren't successful.

Dave

My point, exactly. Cause and effect?

It could work either way couldn't it! No success, sack the coach. OR Sacking the coach means no success.

I think you have to judge each case on its merits as Betts said himself the only certainty about coiaching is that one day you will get sacked.

Dave

[GeoffN]

DaveO posted:

GeoffN posted:

DaveO posted: But we aren't successful.

Dave

My point, exactly. Cause and effect?

It could work either way couldn't it! No success, sack the coach. OR Sacking the coach means no success.

I think you have to judge each case on its merits as Betts said himself the only certainty about coiaching is that one day you will get sacked.

Dave

True, but at the start of that sequence (around 1994), we were the most successful club in the world (in any sport, arguably), until we started sacking our coaches on a yearly basis. My point is that none of the coaches I mentioned have been given a chance to build...There are some good coaches in that list (and some bad ones, admittedly), so is it their fault they didn't deliver, or does the problem lie elsewhere?

[bertina]

GeoffN posted:

DaveO posted:

GeoffN posted: My point, exactly. Cause and effect?

It could work either way couldn't it! No success, sack the coach. OR Sacking the coach means no success.

I think you have to judge each case on its merits as Betts said himself the only certainty about coiaching is that one day you will get sacked.

Dave

True, but at the start of that sequence (around 1994), we were the most successful club in the world (in any sport, arguably), until we started sacking our coaches on a yearly basis. My point is that none of the coaches I mentioned have been given a chance to build...There are some good coaches in that list (and some bad ones, admittedly), so is it their fault they didn't deliver, or does the problem lie elsewhere?

From what i've heard from several players, past and present, unless the coach is prepared to be a "yes man" He's gone.
Whelan and Mo take all the major decisions and the coach is hung out to dry.
that's why we have had such a high turnover of coaches.

[DaveO]

bertina posted:
From what i've heard from several players, past and present, unless the coach is prepared to be a "yes man" He's gone.

I am not sure what you mean by yes man. We all know Wigan coaches are given a team to work with and told to get on with it. It might not be to everyones liking but it has been like that for years.

Whelan and Mo take all the major decisions and the coach is hung out to dry.
that's why we have had such a high turnover of coaches.

Dorahay's exit was down to player power (ask Shaun Edwards) and Mike Greg due to illness so I don't think you can leave thise decisions at Mo and Whelens doors.

I also think that some of those coaches left when Mo and Whelen were not at the club IIRC.

Dave

[Fraggle]

DaveO posted:

Whelan and Mo take all the major decisions and the coach is hung out to dry.
that's why we have had such a high turnover of coaches.

Dorahay's exit was down to player power (ask Shaun Edwards) and Mike Greg due to illness so I don't think you can leave thise decisions at Mo and Whelens doors.

I also think that some of those coaches left when Mo and Whelen were not at the club IIRC.

Dave

I can't remember if ML had come back to the club before Goodway was sacked, but maybe it was still Peter Norbury in charge at that time.

As for Whelan's involvement, I really don't know how much, if any, involvement he has in the running of the club beyond financial support and a general say as owner. I don't think he particularly gets involved, and thinking of his hugely successful intervention (NOT!) in the Farrell saga it's probably best that he leaves everything to ML.