Back to the old school

[DaveO]

Doveoverdave posted:

DaveO posted:

x Wigan Warrior x posted:
All I can say is the Auzzies are slowly but surly bringing our amazing game down to there lazy level. We have gone backwards IMO not forwards !

Respect to the old school ! :eusa2:

There was a thread a while back I think that people mentioned things like the 10m rule being a bad idea and basically the culmination of the rules changes over the years has resulted in the game we see today.

I certainly think it is less skillful.

Dave

Can't agree. Basically the skills of the handling code remain the same. RL in particular is essentially simple, run, "back up" (support the player in possession) and tackle. It has never changed.

Going from %m to 10m has had a big impact. The skills of players like Andy Gregory are far in excess of modern day scrum halfs IMO. They had to be to get the side going against the 5m defence. Tne modern game is much more of a running game than it use to be and a team can make 50m in a set of six by some direct running and quick PTB with very little guile or skill comming into it.

We now have new rules like the "dominant" tackle which is going to slow things down. Lots of little changes add up to alter the way the game flows.

What has changed is the speed of the game. Todays exponents of the game have to have all the same skills and attributes of the old guard but have to execute these at far greater pace. Which is why there appears to be an awful lot of errors on occaision.

The speed comes from the rule changes primarily the 10m rule. I have watched a few 80's and 90's videos lately and the speed of todays game isn't as far ahead as you imply IMO.

Good players would have been good players in any generation. I think todays players are no more or less skillful than the past players it just that it is more difficult to define because of the speed the game is played.

I thnk the fact you can have scrum half's function well as hookers these days is just one example that shows the nature of the game is different. Players of a certain size can play across the back line now and in the pack. There isn't as much variation in the skills required.

I have no doubt some of yesterdays players could hack it in today's game but I am not so sure how any of the current scrum halfs in SL would get on playing to old rules.

Dave








[/quote]

[Matthew]

I think that as (physical) training methods and diet have been refined, players have got bigger and stronger. If you look back to early 80s, there were far fewer "monsters" than there are now. With the growing popularity of 18 stone+ props, more of the other players on the field need to be able to stop and tackle such players. Even wingers have got bigger (look at the Bradford duo).

This has been encouraged by the media where we often see more replays of the "big hits" than line breaks. In my opinion this has lead to a more bash and crash style of rugby league - which at times appears less skilful.

And Yes, I think that the Wigan Grand Slam team (like the team in my profile) would have put the current Leeds side to the sword - like they did the Leeds side of the time in the Premiership Final (Hat-trick for Radlinski and Connolly!)

[heydude]

waterside glens posted:

heydude posted:
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[GeoffN]

heydude posted:

waterside glens posted:

heydude posted:
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[Doveoverdave]

Andy Greg is one of my all time favourite players. In his prime you could argue that he was the worlds best, so to compere him to SL scrum halves is not fair he ought to be judged on the world scale. On this scale his skills are no better (some may argue less) than say Brett Kimmorley or Andrew Johns, Stacey Jones. Skillful players will adapt and adjust to whatever rules after all a good 'un is a good 'un.

Under the 5m rule organised and structured defences could dominate possession without the ball. Graham Lowes team of '86 did this by kicking early in the count, then dominate the opposition in there own 20 and hope that they made mistakes.Very effective against teams who had not seen this before and awfully boring!

I agree that the speed of the general game has peaked and is now on a platau, but to retreat 10m to defend is strength sapping and where the rules let the game down is by having too many subs. Therefore taking (almost) attrition out of the equation.

Nowadays to play league you have to be as versatile as eggs! How many old props could play stand off?
Times change and so do the rules but I still feel the game and the skills required to play it are essentially the same.

[heydude]

GeoffN posted:

heydude posted:

waterside glens posted: did you say doubting or outing

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[Doveoverdave]

Doug Stand posted:

Doveoverdave posted:
Under the 5m rule organised and structured defences could dominate possession without the ball. Graham Lowes team of '86 did this by kicking early in the count, then dominate the opposition in there own 20 and hope that they made mistakes.Very effective against teams who had not seen this before and awfully boring!

Don't agree that the 86 era was boring... Maybe my memory is clouded now but 86/87 we won the league. There were so many length of the field tries then... I would say more than what we are seeing now.

I enjoyed those days too.
However the tactic of throwing the ball back 20m, the rest of the players run up field, the ball is kicked over their heads to be caught by the opposing full back who is then confronted with a string of defenders 5m away was seen as revelutionary then.

It is a dreadfully negative tactic that we employed relentlessly.

I wasn't complaining then as it was highly successful and winning isn't boring at all.

We may not agree, but watch the tape of the Manly game at central park, that fantastic, memorable evening never to be forgotten and tell me that the game didn't need a couple of tries to really make it a classic.

[MrsLam]

Not just because Wigan had all the sucess, I liked the 5m rule and I still think there should be scrums. The chip over the top was an art and with the 5m defence you had to be quick and precise. Gregory was a master at that.

Can you imaging ANY team in Superleague making any yards though? Play of the ball is very slow recently, the attack takes ages coming back into their line as does the defence, hardly any team is ever onside/square at the play of the ball and unfortunately Wigan would never make any yards from this rule. I think this goes back to something someone said before (sorry about vagueness of that sentence!) about lowering skills of teams 'these days'

[MrsLam]

Nope it's me not you, I'm talking ****! Tend to make things up as I go along, sorry about the mix up I'm not talking about scrums I'm talking about the defensive line.
*slaps MrsLams face hard*

[MrsLam]

It's about time! Your teas been ready over half an hour, it's stone cold now