General election

[Wandering Warrior]

Dave O
Pretty much Bob on there and as I have said earlier the NHS will only be missed when it becomes a requirement. Furthermore in the same programme it stated over 300000 new national insurance numbers where issued to folk that where non resident here last year. The maths are really difficult in this exercise?

[i'm spartacus]

The NHS is the sacred cow of our society. I think it was Nigel Lawson who said that it was the closest thing we have to a religion, and it is regularly run out by opposition parties as being in crisis due to Government policy. The subliminal message that sinks in is that everything was milk and honey when Labour was in charge, but wind back to their rule, and the headlines were exactly the same

It is always a darn sight better than when the Tories run the NHS.
In 1997 there were patients being left on trolleys in hospital corridors and we are back there again. In 1997 it wasa big factor in John Major's defeat. It's not "subliminal" at all.

Those figures you quoted were chickenfeed compared to where we are now:

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-35857815

Did you know it is current government policy not to allow existing hospital departments to bid to provide their own services? They are excluded so only private providers can tender.

You will hear a lot about the NHS remaining free at the point of use from the Tories. It is a smokescreen to get the service privatised. Your taxes will go to private companies to provide the treatment. When the bill goes up as profit becomes the motivator you will then see calls to introduce charges to reduce the burden on the taxpayer. The cost of the NHS will become "unsustainable" not because we are all getting older but due to the cost of provision going through the roof.

And that is before we even consider the massive cost (literally billions) of top down reorganisation of the NHS Lansey introduced.

Yeah yeah - proving my point exactly..

The grass is always greener when the other guys are in charge, and when the other guy, isn't your guy, then it was always better under your guy. Political opinions are formulated by starting with a conclusion, then looking for the evidence to support it. The basic problem recognised by both sides is that of having an unsustainable system with spiralling costs. Whoever is in power, they have different ideas how to deal with it, and both sides know that there will have to be some private provision factored into the equation in some form or another. It is an absolute given that those who want the power, will claim that those who have the power have got it all wrong.

[doc]

Corbyn's best route to improving the Labour vote would have been a good performance in televised prime ministerial debates but May has stated she will not partake. Personally I think we should have the debates anyway and put a pound of lard in her place as HIGNFY did to Roy Hattersley.

TM = MT, both screw the working class while spinning that they are giving the opportunity to improve themselves. Never trusted the Tories and never will.

[Wandering Warrior]

I noticed Ian Birchall had a thread deleted earlier, full of Tory propaganda pointed at Dave O. Quite sad really to use a forum to manipulate folk to vote how you personally want them too!
Fortunately I like to think I can make my own mind up about things and I wont be driving a twelve year old Honda Accord in Harrogate anytime soon!

[Wigan_forever1985]

Corbyn's best route to improving the Labour vote would have been a good performance in televised prime ministerial debates but May has stated she will not partake. Personally I think we should have the debates anyway and put a pound of lard in her place as HIGNFY did to Roy Hattersley.

TM = MT, both screw the working class while spinning that they are giving the opportunity to improve themselves. Never trusted the Tories and never will.

Corbyns best route for improving the labour vote is to leave

Labour just havent learnt anything they could have the best manifesto in the world but Corbyn is fundamentally unelectable, they have done this 3 times now Brown/Milliband/Corbyn all unelectable and yet labour seem shocked when they dont get in

Our system is strange because despite the fact you arent voting for Corbyn people still see it as voting for Corbyn. The whole reason Tony Blair won for labour was he was young and charismatic (by politician standards) and for todays generation someone with charisma or indeed a personality of any sorts is pretty much all you need.

As much as i dont like him david milliand would of been a good leader for labour IMO but that ship has sailed.

If i were labour id of got a young charismatic leader, the world of politics is changing and as cynical as it sounds i bet that labour would do better in this election with a reality TV star in charge who knows nothing about politics than Corbyn

[fozzieskem]

To Corbyn followers it's everyone's fault bar his when things go wrong,my lad met him a few months back and he said he really was a nice bloke stopped him and took time to have a word with him and when they met again a day or two later he while he probably didn't,said he'd remembered meeting him a day or two back.

So why hasn't this charisma and he does seem to have it not transferred over to wider appeal?age has to have something to do with it though you could argue May is well past her sell by date (she does have a look of the empower from Star Wars to me) but he is doomed before the start because the PLP simply don't want him as leader and the country doesn't either..

Blair for all his faults presided over a few years of calm in the country and led us out of the dark ages to the nice shiny country we see now,do I care about Iraq? Hate to say it but no,Saddam was a problem that simply didn't go away in 1990 he was always going to need sorting out like it or not,if want to blame anyone blame the weaklings of 1990 not bush and Blair.

It's nice to see the thread raise the NHS as an issue I suspect though this election will be about Lunatic decision to leave the EU and imagration ( not that there racist of course) just like the Brexit referendum last year boiled down to.

[Wigan_forever1985]

To Corbyn followers it's everyone's fault bar his when things go wrong,my lad met him a few months back and he said he really was a nice bloke stopped him and took time to have a word with him and when they met again a day or two later he while he probably didn't,said he'd remembered meeting him a day or two back.

So why hasn't this charisma and he does seem to have it not transferred over to wider appeal?age has to have something to do with it though you could argue May is well past her sell by date (she does have a look of the empower from Star Wars to me) but he is doomed before the start because the PLP simply don't want him as leader and the country doesn't either..

Blair for all his faults presided over a few years of calm in the country and led us out of the dark ages to the nice shiny country we see now,do I care about Iraq? Hate to say it but no,Saddam was a problem that simply didn't go away in 1990 he was always going to need sorting out like it or not,if want to blame anyone blame the weaklings of 1990 not bush and Blair.

It's nice to see the thread raise the NHS as an issue I suspect though this election will be about Lunatic decision to leave the EU and imagration ( not that there racist of course) just like the Brexit referendum last year boiled down to.

good post and i agree this election will be fought on the basis of how brexit is handled. Many people voted out for brexit on the simple basis of getting one over on "johnny foreigner" and nothing else, and this is the level of rationalization you're dealing with. Disregard everything for one particular issue and this election will go the same way.

I like Corbyn contray to what my previous posts may have conveyed however he is unelectable, he just doesn't have it, whatever 'it' maybe. Cameron had 'it' and tony blair had 'it', May doesnt but may gives the impression of an old knowledgeable school teacher whereas corybn comes across as a bit of a tool which he is anything but. His image just doesn't sit well with any demographic.

you know the saying

It’s hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it’s damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person

[josie andrews]

I noticed Ian Birchall had a thread deleted earlier, full of Tory propaganda pointed at Dave O. Quite sad really to use a forum to manipulate folk to vote how you personally want them too!
Fortunately I like to think I can make my own mind up about things and I wont be driving a twelve year old Honda Accord in Harrogate anytime soon!

I haven't deleted any posts on this thread, so either he has deleted it himself or one of the other Moderators must have done it.

I usually notify posters if I have done anything to their posts or threads

[Wandering Warrior]

The thread was under Re. General Election and was on about 1:30pm and gone 4:30. It matters not, but why use this forum to further your own agenda?

[BriH]

First, as has been said, this makes a mockery of the so-called 'fixed term' which I didn't like.
TM is gambling that the polls are right - and who wouldn't take this opportunity to give herself a large majority?
Make no mistake, TM is doing this for herself. When she was at Oxford (I think) her 'friends' said she was very ambitious politically, and wanted to be the first woman PM - The Witch beat her to it.
I have always voted Labour and will continue to do so. However.....I despair because of Jeremy Corbyn and think Labour will lose a lot of seats.
There is another twist in all this: London.
London, as a whole voted to remain in the EU and is Labour controlled. Maybe - and it is a big maybe! - some of the Con seats might go to Labour.
If people voted for a "Better Britain" then Labour would win.

Going to be interesting.