Our Front Row

[moto748]

he does more dummy running than Powell.

we will struggle without MM

So that's 'next to none' compared to 'none', then?

if MM is putting in a shift, then Josh Hodgson must be a superman! I watch him every week and I always think, *that's* what you want from a dummy-half: quick unfussy pass, the smarts to know when to run, a bit of deception close to the opposition line, a good kicking game, including the ability to hit 40/20s...

[markill]

As we are discussing front row forwards I read that McIllorum missed 7 tackles. And that was in the limited minutes he was in the field. Plus virtually no running from dummy half. If people are looking for reasons why we struggle I would start with the position we find ourselves in at 9.

what it doesn't tell you is alteast 4 of those missed tackles made the person target panic pass and kill that play. MM hit hard and fast in the game. and he does more dummy running than powell.

Yes, McIlorum runs more. Roughly 3.5 times a game compared to roughly 2 a game from Powell. Although Powell has marginally more tackle busts and breaks per game, so maybe he runs at better times. He also has 6 assists to McIlorum's 0 (SL only stats). Both run less than your average hooker, so I think you have to say it's style of play rather than ability/inability of the players.

McIlorum makes fewer and misses more tackles than Powell on average. But McIlorum has like you say an intimidating style of defence where he goes for big hits that don't always land right, whereas Powell has a more controlled wrap the ball technique. I just wish McIlorum could do the wrap the ball thing when it's appropriate as well as the hard man thing. I keep thinking back to the last game at Saints, if he just tried to tackle Amor rather than try to hurt him in build up to Percival's first try, they never would've got back into that game.

Across the whole front row positions, I don't think the issue is the personnel. I don't even have too big an issue with a fairly systematic rotation. I just think the tactics have to adapt to what the game needs, but we only take whats given in terms of ground made by the front row, rather than force the issue like teams such as Hull, Saints and Leeds do with their front row.

[the pieman]

As we are discussing front row forwards I read that McIllorum missed 7 tackles. And that was in the limited minutes he was in the field. Plus virtually no running from dummy half. If people are looking for reasons why we struggle I would start with the position we find ourselves in at 9.

what it doesn't tell you is alteast 4 of those missed tackles made the person target panic pass and kill that play. MM hit hard and fast in the game. and he does more dummy running than powell.

Yes, McIlorum runs more. Roughly 3.5 times a game compared to roughly 2 a game from Powell. Although Powell has marginally more tackle busts and breaks per game, so maybe he runs at better times. He also has 6 assists to McIlorum's 0 (SL only stats). Both run less than your average hooker, so I think you have to say it's style of play rather than ability/inability of the players.

McIlorum makes fewer and misses more tackles than Powell on average. But McIlorum has like you say an intimidating style of defence where he goes for big hits that don't always land right, whereas Powell has a more controlled wrap the ball technique. I just wish McIlorum could do the wrap the ball thing when it's appropriate as well as the hard man thing. I keep thinking back to the last game at Saints, if he just tried to tackle Amor rather than try to hurt him in build up to Percival's first try, they never would've got back into that game.

Across the whole front row positions, I don't think the issue is the personnel. I don't even have too big an issue with a fairly systematic rotation. I just think the tactics have to adapt to what the game needs, but we only take whats given in terms of ground made by the front row, rather than force the issue like teams such as Hull, Saints and Leeds do with their front row.

some good points made there and on both the Props and Hooker i believe that it is not down to ability but tactics

i had a discussion with a Saints work colleague a few years ago and we were both of the mind that we wouldnt swap McIllorum / Roby for each other as they both offer different styles that complimented the team that they played in at the time. i am sure MM could run more, but is instructed to get the pass out of dummy half, whereas Roby thrives on a quick play of the ball and scooting. Both are good defensively again with different styles - MM hits hard but less, Roby makes lots of tackles but doesnt hurt (although i have never been on the end of one)

Our props have proven that as a unit they are more than capable of playing how us fans perceive a traditional prop to play - take up the ball and tackle hard, but again tactics involve our backs taking a lot of pressure off them during the regular season

[Exiled Wiganer]

I would have Roby in a heartbeat over our pair.
I find this concept of mystical damage done in defence - so that missed tackles are actually more effective than real ones - impossible to fathom. I appreciate everyone loves him and he glowers meanly but McIllorum offers us nothing that I can see. Look at good teams' hookers, and you see players who can run, and have kicking games and play long minutes. Our 9 offers none of these and can't even bring his props onto the ball at speed.
Of course, as his defenders suggest, Wane may take him off when he is fresh as a daisy and he may be under instructions not to run, or kick, or even complete his tackles. That stretches credulity beyond breaking point for mine. If we look at our props they can be very effective if spelled properly and brought onto the ball at speed. Just as our backs would like some fast ball now and again.

[moto748]

I would have Roby in a heartbeat over our pair.
I find this concept of mystical damage done in defence - so that missed tackles are actually more effective than real ones - impossible to fathom. I appreciate everyone loves him and he glowers meanly but McIllorum offers us nothing that I can see. Look at good teams' hookers, and you see players who can run, and have kicking games and play long minutes. Our 9 offers none of these and can't even bring his props onto the ball at speed.
Of course, as his defenders suggest, Wane may take him off when he is fresh as a daisy and he may be under instructions not to run, or kick, or even complete his tackles. That stretches credulity beyond breaking point for mine. If we look at our props they can be very effective if spelled properly and brought onto the ball at speed. Just as our backs would like some fast ball now and again.

Agree with all thst.

[Blackpool_Pie]

I think a bit of a shake up is needed. Fpn seems to take one step forward and two back. I'd honestly get rid after this season. I'm not quick to judge a player but he really hasn't done enough for me. Flower Clubb and Tautai with Sutty Navarrete and a new signing for next season for me. I'm a big fan of Clubby and Flower. Especially Clubby at the moment. I think he's been great since his kidney removal

[TrueBlueWarrior]

How did Roby do tonight against MM?

[Exiled Wiganer]

Roby made a lot more ground and put in a shift.
He hasn't mastered the missed tackles that aren't, and wasn't floored by a 10 stone winger.

[medlocke]

Roby made a lot more ground and put in a shift.
He hasn't mastered the missed tackles that aren't, and wasn't floored by a 10 stone winger.

He put him reet on his arse, time to go for me

[Blackpool_Pie]

Roby made a lot more ground and put in a shift.
He hasn't mastered the missed tackles that aren't, and wasn't floored by a 10 stone winger.

He put him reet on his arse, time to go for me

A bit harsh. It was a head clash