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I know that some people don't like stats and sometimes they can be misleading, but if you compare our starting front rows performance against Hull's they are miles apart.

Tackles - 74 v 110
Missed Tackles - 9 v 4
Carries - 10 v 38
Metres - 75 v 277
Clean Breaks - 0 v 1
Errors - 2 v 0
Penalties - 1 v 2
Passes - 42 v 150

Forwards win matches and ours aren't good enough!

You say stats can be misleading, but even when they aren't fully set in context they can be illuminating for sure. The numbers are supportive obviously of what we also actually saw, that their props were better than ours. The context needs to be picked up that Watts & Taylor played much longer minutes than FPN & Clubb. But they did that because of the shape they are in and the effectiveness they provide. Their props were excellent, ours were largely ineffective although also under-used as they almost always are as ball carriers under Wane.

Imo our props are being asked to play a certain way and that's the problem, FPN can't all of a sudden be a bad prop. If we get a new coach I think we'll see a big improvement, Taylor was by far our best prop after we won the double and he went on to get better under a different coach.
Wane seems to prefer who are reliable enough defensively but offer nothing going forward, for example Flower while FPN, Clubb, Sutton & Tautai are restricted. Plus this rotation for rotations sake mid game is proven to offer nothing.

To add more context to the role our props play, this season only Widnes' props have had fewer carries per game than ours and in terms of % of all a side's carries, our props are getting fewer carries than any other side in Super League this year (23% of all our carries are by our props compared to league average of 26%).

Props are battering rams, end of story, stop having Wingers and Centres doing their job

10 carries between 4 of them in the entire match! Wow! Please tell me I've read it wrong. At least they saved themselves for the tackling in defence, oh no, almost 40 tackles less than Hull as well. Mind blowing.

Coming out of our 10/20 mtr areas carries are done by the backs.
They run into opposition forwards who have far easier tackles to make rather than tackle prop forwards. This why we have very few mid field breaks and end up with slow PTB's.

Our props are as good as anyone's but are not used as props to do what props should do. We also give the opposition forwards a leg up by having two 9s. Houghton does 80 mins so Radford has 2 interchanges Wane denies his team.

Start using props to take the ball up, dominate in the tackle, get quick ptb and allow our 9 to create from dh. Our props could get us on the front foot if they were allowed to.

We were poor v Hull and it's obvious changes in the game plan are needed. We will see against Saints if anything has been learned from losing the C Cup Final.

Nothing will change on the tactics front. We will plod along as we've done all season and Saints will do a job on us.

endoman wrote:10 carries between 4 of them in the entire match! Wow! Please tell me I've read it wrong. At least they saved themselves for the tackling in defence, oh no, almost 40 tackles less than Hull as well. Mind blowing.

SEFC's numbers were just the starting props, so two of them. I think Sutton & Tautai had more carries.

Josie's friend wrote:Imo our props are being asked to play a certain way and that's the problem, FPN can't all of a sudden be a bad prop. If we get a new coach I think we'll see a big improvement, Taylor was by far our best prop after we won the double and he went on to get better under a different coach.
Wane seems to prefer who are reliable enough defensively but offer nothing going forward, for example Flower while FPN, Clubb, Sutton & Tautai are restricted. Plus this rotation for rotations sake mid game is proven to offer nothing.

Scott Taylor had a good first season for Wigan ,but hardly broke sweat in his second.Pretty clear he had been tapped by Hull,which was why the club invoked their 3rd year option,and loaned him to Salford.