McIllorum

[southportcdm]

We don't have four hookers if Waney insists on playing Tommy at 7. I'm still not convinced he'll try Sam at half back and, let's be honest, it would be asking a lot of Morgan to suddenly become a good half back after playing all his senior career at fullback. I think Sam is much more likely to be successful in this position than Morgan but I suppose the coach has to look at the overall balance of the team. I agree with earlier posters that losing Mickey would be a blow but may be worth it if we actually sign a decent player as a result.

[jao711]

Post on Total RL fans forum says MM is on holiday in California but will report for pre season at Catalan on Jan 2nd. I wonder.

[shaunedwardsfanclub]

We don't have four hookers if Waney insists on playing Tommy at 7. I'm still not convinced he'll try Sam at half back and, let's be honest, it would be asking a lot of Morgan to suddenly become a good half back after playing all his senior career at fullback. I think Sam is much more likely to be successful in this position than Morgan but I suppose the coach has to look at the overall balance of the team. I agree with earlier posters that losing Mickey would be a blow but may be worth it if we actually sign a decent player as a result.

Tommy will play 9, Sam 6 at the start of the season, unless they are injured!

[Wiganer Ted]

If SEFC is correct then a spine of - Escare, S Tomkins, Williams, Leuluai & O'Loughlin is formidable.
How we cope when interchanges and/or injuries occur is the test of the squad and coaching staff.

[Fan4Fifty]

It is potentially a great spine but even that lot will find it difficult unless our forwards dominate the opposition pack much more than they did last season. Thinking about Lockers, if he plays 60% of games and 60% of time in each game, then we only have him on the pitch for about a third of the time! A key challenge is still who leads when he's off. And if ST is to play 6, (though still not convinced SW will go that route) will we play the same predictable 'structures' with a Williams left and Sam right combination?

[the pieman]

i think the problem with our hookers is more down to what they are being told to play

i am pretty sure that both MM and SP are capable of running more from dummy half, but are told to pass. MM played differently in world cup game and SP is a half back by trade, so more than capable of running with the ball in hand

James Roby in a Wigan side would be half as effective as he is in the Saint side as he would be coached to get the ball out of dummy half, and not to scoot / play what he sees

for what its worth i am pretty sure that either MM or SP can play for the full 80 minutes, so again i believe that the wasted substitution on the clock is down to the coaching to either keep players happy or just to be stubborn because thats what he believes is right. i just look at the other hookers in the league who play 80 mins week in week out, and are also more effective than what we see from 2 * 40 mins stints

What's the obsession in this country with running from dummy half? How often does Cameron Smith do it? How often did Martin Dermott do it? They are/were hookers whose passing ability and decision making from dummy half give their halfbacks time and space.How often does Cameron Smith get tackled in possession compared to the Robys, Highams, Clarkes in our game?

Martin Dermott is the best modern day hooker that Wigan have had, Cam Smith is the finest I have seen. However, if they operated within our current game plan even they would struggle.

trust me i agree with your points, and am not obsessed with scooting from dummy half, but it should be used if the play dictates, not almost every play like 1 trick mick / roby to an extent. Just look at how ineffective Roby is against a good defensive team v when he has freedom to cause havoc

however in relation to our hookers, i personally dont believe they are instructed to play what they see i.e. the odd scoot, but equally i dont believe that they are fast enough or creative enough to be able to bring others into the game as has been described with Martin Dermott / Cameron Smith.

i had the opportunity to speak with Brian Noble through work a few years ago, and he was discussing with us how a slower play of the ball should create more creative players, as they need to work to beat the defensive line, not just make constant easy meters through slow markers etc

this touches on your point about the obsession with running from dummy half. a lot of fans in this country complain constantly about slow POB, lying on etc etc, but if we want a better standard of game and more creative players, then we need to allow (within reason) defences to be dominant and force the attacking team to break them down through creativity, not just because you got a quick POB and make constant yards

[Bert's Medal]

[quote="shaunedwardsfanclub;

Tommy will play 9, Sam 6 at the start of the season, unless they are injured![/quote]

This is 100% spot on.

[bertina]

Gone to Catalan definitely.
Didn,t want to go, but forced out by the club.
Wane did not want him to go but was overruled by lenegan and Radlinski.
A result of the salary cap, and not being able to unload FPN.
Dreadful management by the club, and a terrible way to treat a player who has been at the club since 16 years old.

[jobo]

Gone to Catalan definitely.
Didn,t want to go, but forced out by the club.
Wane did not want him to go but was overruled by lenegan and Radlinski.
A result of the salary cap, and not being able to unload FPN.
Dreadful management by the club, and a terrible way to treat a player who has been at the club since 16 years old.

I've been told something similar.

Strange that there hasn't been an announcement though, or maybe not so strange.

[Wandering Warrior]

Season ticket sales are well down I've heard so no point in compounding the situation with an announcement of a departure, as with Gelling also.
I think with 30 days to go to kick off and no squad numbers announced is another story also.
Very unproffessional at this point in time.