McIlorum and Gelling released

[Wiganer Ted]

Tommy said at a fans meeting that he was firstly a hooker.
It was when he was at NZW and Daniel Anderson moved him to scrum half.
He said he always considered himself a 9.

It didn't take long for Wayne Bennett to play Tommy at 9 in the World Cup when Kearney was the Kiwi head coach. The Kiwi's won the WC.

Interesting to see how he goes back at 9.

[Wandering Warrior]

2016 proved we don't need MM, we played better rugby than we did in 2017, we finished 4 places higher than in 2017, we became Super League Champions unlike in 2017

Good grief. What an absolutely ridiculous statement. A five year old would not come out with such daft "logic".

As you are well aware he is full of these statements. He hasn't got a clue!

[DaveO]

Third however, your attempt to label Medlocke as illogical is based on you misinterpreting what he said:
Forget your A, B and C, Medlocke's point, perfectly clearly explained, is that for us to win the GF in 2016 with Powell playing 80 minutes through most of the season, and in such a crucial role, suggests that he can't be as bad as some say he is.

Medlocke's assertion is complete bollocks and his assertion was
we don't need MM because because we did better in 2016 than in 2017. According to Medlocke there is only one reason for that, Powell playing 80 minutes. Smith was scrum half that season, Farrell won the man of the match in the GF itself. Plenty think it was actually Sarginson's best game in a Wigan shirt. Statistically opta places Charnely as Wigan's no. 1 player that season. I could go on. There are MANY variables in play that differ between 2016 and 2017.

Regardless of Medlocke's opinion on this the club has lost the plot. It's chosen to go with Powell and TL the latter of whom looked knackered last year and hope that Ganson makes the grade longer term.

[Exiled Wiganer]

This team is better with an 80 minute hooker. If we had a loose forward who could play long minutes or props who were effective for long stints it would matter less, but a non running 40 minute hooker meant that we had no threat, no momentum when Lockers went off and no space for an extra prop. McIllorum had to go, so that we can find space for Escare, Tomkins, Williams in some combination of 1, 6 and 7. Move Tommy to 9, where he offers more threat than McIllorum, and the team is stronger.

I think Sarg for Gelling weakens us, but I know that many on here are unstinting in their criticism of Gelling, and so will welcome that. Having seen Sarg from hius earliest days in London after leaving Hemel Hempstead, I have never seen anyone with greater drive to get the most out of his talent. Which is not something that could be said about Gelling.

I simply don't see where the drama is with these pieces of business - we simply had too many hookers once we had to find a place for Escare. And if Gelling wanted to go home, then finding someone of around the same impact neither strengthens nor weakens us.

[medlocke]

Third however, your attempt to label Medlocke as illogical is based on you misinterpreting what he said:
Forget your A, B and C, Medlocke's point, perfectly clearly explained, is that for us to win the GF in 2016 with Powell playing 80 minutes through most of the season, and in such a crucial role, suggests that he can't be as bad as some say he is.

Medlocke's assertion is complete bollocks and his assertion was
we don't need MM because because we did better in 2016 than in 2017. According to Medlocke there is only one reason for that, Powell playing 80 minutes. Smith was scrum half that season, Farrell won the man of the match in the GF itself. Plenty think it was actually Sarginson's best game in a Wigan shirt. Statistically opta places Charnely as Wigan's no. 1 player that season. I could go on. There are MANY variables in play that differ between 2016 and 2017.

Regardless of Medlocke's opinion on this the club has lost the plot. It's chosen to go with Powell and TL the latter of whom looked knackered last year and hope that Ganson makes the grade longer term.

My assertion was we did not miss MM in 2016, nowhere have i claimed that Powell was superstar of 2016 or that he won the Grand Final, that is just your paranoid delusions

[Exiled Wiganer]

We were clearly more effective as a team in 2016, because the length of time Powell played allowed us to pick an extra prop. Any child over the age of 3 could see that.

[keptinthedarkfans]

This pushed out for salary cap reasons is a load of b*llocks. Micky mac comes home from WC with a price on his head clubs offer him stupid money for 2 years. HE asks to speak to Catalan. Now if an employer of mine asks me can he go for a interview at another company I would take it he wants away. From that moment things where never going to go back to normal. There was not one bit of unrest with him before WC

[DaveO]

This team is better with an 80 minute hooker. If we had a loose forward who could play long minutes or props who were effective for long stints it would matter less, but a non running 40 minute hooker meant that we had no threat, no momentum when Lockers went off and no space for an extra prop. McIllorum had to go, so that we can find space for Escare, Tomkins, Williams in some combination of 1, 6 and 7. Move Tommy to 9, where he offers more threat than McIllorum, and the team is stronger.

Tommy is 32 and past it and we don't do 80 minute hookers under Wane and never have when two are available. I don't know how many times I have pointed the latter out to you but given we play two hookers and sub by the clock in every game two are available has it really not registered with you yet that this how we line up?

I think Sarg for Gelling weakens us, but I know that many on here are unstinting in their criticism of Gelling, and so will welcome that. Having seen Sarg from hius earliest days in London after leaving Hemel Hempstead, I have never seen anyone with greater drive to get the most out of his talent. Which is not something that could be said about Gelling.

We have replaced a poor player with poorer player. Sarge has always trained the house down. He's still poor. Did you not see the thread on here when the news item was published that he was ripping it up in training? Not many thought that was anything other than old news.

I simply don't see where the drama is with these pieces of business - we simply had too many hookers once we had to find a place for Escare. And if Gelling wanted to go home, then finding someone of around the same impact neither strengthens nor weakens us.

The obvious way to "find a place" for Escare (though why you have elevated him to God like status that requires other players to leave the club I am not sure...) and to reduce the number of hookers was to boot TL onto the coaching staff. Off the cap and out of the team. Not get rid of someone three years younger.

[Wigan_forever1985]

So the recruitment so far has been

Out:
Mickey Mac
Gelling
Tierney
Navarette???

In:
Gabe - never played a first grade game in either country
Sarge - spent nearly the entire last season in the sidelines and basically the only news he made last year was fighting outside a night club

Face it - wigan aren’t a big club anymore

[Exiled Wiganer]

Without doing that cut and paste stuff in reply to DaveO’s latest:
1) Powell’s stats from 2016 show how we could play with an extra prop. It just requires a look at the line ups for the last 10 games in 2016;
2) again,in my opinion Sarg for Gelling is like for like overall. Others think differently. I have seen him play since his earliest days and his career has been one of continuous improvement. His performance in the 2016 grand final was superb; and
3) I would not have been disappointed to have kept MM and lost TL, but this way works as well. Even to suggest that alternative does show the extent to which my logic behind the squad rejig is compelling. For which, many thanks.