Shaun Edwards

[medlocke]

It doesn't matter if Madge was only a slightly better coach or a lot better coach because the effect he had was dramatic. Yes he was a revelation in that the way he got the team playing compared to Noble was like comparing chalk and cheese. The fact he decided to leave after a couple of years doesn't change that. I think Edwards would have an equally dramatic effect on the way the team we have now plays.

You can put that down to new coach syndrome Dave, we see it all the time, he wasn't all that good in his second season, fans often go way over the top when talking about Madge

No, you really can't do that. The way the team played was radically different and they were ten times fitter. I don't think I have ever seen a more complete Wigan performance in the modern era than in the GF win. He was here two seasons and won a major trophy in each whereas in the three years prior we never looked like winning anything and didn't. You don't get such a dramatic turnaround down to "new coach syndrome".

Yes you do, the proof is out there, you just got to look

[DaveO]

Implying that Wane is a "yes man".

You definitely don't know Wane if you think that of him.

As for Sean Edwards, who knows what impact he'd have. Madge was a revelation when he took over but he came after being thoroughly schooled in the NRL. Not sure the same would apply with Edwards.

I think Wane will agree to anything IL wants to keep his job. That is what I meant by yes man. If he's not then why didn't he tell IL and Rads to go and get stuffed when they said we are re-signing Sarge ? If he's not a yes man in the sense I mean then we can't blame IL and Rads for poor signings and we have had quite a few of those.

As to Edwards as I said he is student of the game. He would not come here ignorance or half cocked. If he started tomorrow I'd expect the team to be playing differently pretty quick and one obvious change I think he'd make in about five minutes is to get Powell out of the No 7 slot.

I know everyone has an opinion,But hang on.
Wane will agree to anything to keep his job and hes a Yes Man.
,its Made my day reading that its so funny.

Why? According to the perceived wisdom it's not Wane who makes the signings but Rads and IL. Wane either just accepts being given some dross players to work with without saying boo to a goose aor he's on board with the decisions in which case he is a bad at recruitment as they are.

As for S.Edwards.How can he not make some changes IF we had the good fortune to have him.Whats the point if he didnt. What the changes would be as part of a coaching staff,who knows what they would be.Edwards is what,54 ish now.I remember J,Edwards had him as a student.Well before his birthdays where in double figures.If he doesnt know it now, nearly fifty years on in and around the game,he never will.

What is your point? The one I was making is I'd expect us to see the same kind of difference we got going from Noble to Madge if we went from Wane to Edwards. Not some tinkering around the edges.

Im perhaps one of the only people who likes Powell on here.He is not perfect,he is not the best in Super league,but If Williams deserves some support,time,and encouragement,why can Powell not be treated the same.Marks out of ten and Sam i cant remember ever turning in less than a 7,hes young,bleeds red and white,and ive been glad we have had him on many occasion.
Thats my 2 peneth.Smile on my chops,wayne a Yes Man.....
4G

Powell is 25 (turns 26 in July) so he should now be in his prime not being treated as if he is project player who will come good. We had that with Gelling who never got any better and it's the same with Powell. He's as good as he is going to get and that is not good enough. If Edwards was coach I'd expect him to sort the half back issues out immediately. Not persist as Wane is doing as if there is no other option.

[Firestarter]

The trouble is its hard to assess Wane because the yard stick to measure him keeps moving

Last year we needed something different this year we dont really, as the standard of the league continues to plummet there are no signs that will change and if you look at who is best placed to spot and bring through youngsters (which in a few years will probably be 60-70% of all teams) Wane is pretty good at just that.

So as the league adjusts it actually plays into Wanes hands

Now if by some miracle something happens where the rot stops on SL and talent starts to flood back in, Wane will be not suited again because his "we will make a new one" only works when the general standard allows for poorer versions of previous players

that pretty much sums it up......good post

[Exiled Wiganer]

I don't understand how we can say that the standard in SL is plummeting. Our top teams' results in the last 3 years against NRL teams have been no better or worse than in the years before that. England, with an SL core, were very competitive indeed against the Kangaroos and beat Tonga with its many SL stars, in a hostile environment. I think the games are often very entertaining, and for a team with the talent of Huddersfield or Catalans (both with players who have starred in the NRL) to be in the bottom 2 suggests that the strength in depth is as high as it has ever been.

Barba stands out, but then he stood out in the NRL.

I think that arguably the top teams are less mighty than some, but the strength in depth is better than any time I can remember.

When Wigan won their first Wembley that I can remember, while we had Kenny and Ferguson, players like Dunn, Courtney, Kiss, Campbell and Donlan would never get within a million miles of the current team. Not to say that I didn't enjoy watching them.

It could be better, of course, but that has always been the case.

[Wigan_forever1985]

I don't understand how we can say that the standard in SL is plummeting. Our top teams' results in the last 3 years against NRL teams have been no better or worse than in the years before that. England, with an SL core, were very competitive indeed against the Kangaroos and beat Tonga with its many SL stars, in a hostile environment. I think the games are often very entertaining, and for a team with the talent of Huddersfield or Catalans (both with players who have starred in the NRL) to be in the bottom 2 suggests that the strength in depth is as high as it has ever been.

Barba stands out, but then he stood out in the NRL.

I think that arguably the top teams are less mighty than some, but the strength in depth is better than any time I can remember.

When Wigan won their first Wembley that I can remember, while we had Kenny and Ferguson, players like Dunn, Courtney, Kiss, Campbell and Donlan would never get within a million miles of the current team. Not to say that I didn't enjoy watching them.

It could be better, of course, but that has always been the case.

Competition against the NRL teams is completely irrelevant as the its never done on an even keel and a lot of the NRL teams dont even take it seriously. Whenever we go there we get battered.

I have posted before about this and its easy to show the standard slip. Simply look at the line ups of the most famous teams like Wigan and Saints - once full of "established" stars they are now made up of "potential" stars. When the "best" teams have diluted in quality and are still the "best" teams -that tells you the standard has gone down

That's not to say that relative speaking there's much difference to the product, it just means that the product as a whole doesn't have the quality it once had and i don't know how anyone can argue otherwise.

[moto748]

I don't understand how we can say that the standard in SL is plummeting. Our top teams' results in the last 3 years against NRL teams have been no better or worse than in the years before that. England, with an SL core, were very competitive indeed against the Kangaroos and beat Tonga with its many SL stars, in a hostile environment. I think the games are often very entertaining, and for a team with the talent of Huddersfield or Catalans (both with players who have starred in the NRL) to be in the bottom 2 suggests that the strength in depth is as high as it has ever been.

Barba stands out, but then he stood out in the NRL.

I think that arguably the top teams are less mighty than some, but the strength in depth is better than any time I can remember.

When Wigan won their first Wembley that I can remember, while we had Kenny and Ferguson, players like Dunn, Courtney, Kiss, Campbell and Donlan would never get within a million miles of the current team. Not to say that I didn't enjoy watching them.

It could be better, of course, but that has always been the case.

Pretty much what I was going to say. I wouldn't claim that the standard of play wasn't a bit better in the 'hey-day' (whenever that was), but to use emotive terms like 'plummeting' is just ridiculous. If the standard of English rugby was plummeting, the Aussies would be putting 80 points on us. And they are not. Or maybe the standard fo the NRL is 'plummeting' too? Some Aussie fans would agree, but it's never hard to find a pessimist, is it?

Furthermore, in the 'heyday', yes, Wigan and Saints may have had strong squads, Leeds and Bradford too, but the rest of them?

The drip, drip, drip of pessimism really wears me down.

[Nezza Faz]

I don't understand how we can say that the standard in SL is plummeting. Our top teams' results in the last 3 years against NRL teams have been no better or worse than in the years before that. England, with an SL core, were very competitive indeed against the Kangaroos and beat Tonga with its many SL stars, in a hostile environment. I think the games are often very entertaining, and for a team with the talent of Huddersfield or Catalans (both with players who have starred in the NRL) to be in the bottom 2 suggests that the strength in depth is as high as it has ever been.

Barba stands out, but then he stood out in the NRL.

I think that arguably the top teams are less mighty than some, but the strength in depth is better than any time I can remember.

When Wigan won their first Wembley that I can remember, while we had Kenny and Ferguson, players like Dunn, Courtney, Kiss, Campbell and Donlan would never get within a million miles of the current team. Not to say that I didn't enjoy watching them.

It could be better, of course, but that has always been the case.

Pretty much what I was going to say. I wouldn't claim that the standard of play wasn't a bit better in the 'hey-day' (whenever that was), but to use emotive terms like 'plummeting' is just ridiculous. If the standard of English rugby was plummeting, the Aussies would be putting 80 points on us. And they are not. Or maybe the standard fo the NRL is 'plummeting' too? Some Aussie fans would agree, but it's never hard to find a pessimist, is it?

Furthermore, in the 'heyday', yes, Wigan and Saints may have had strong squads, Leeds and Bradford too, but the rest of them?

The drip, drip, drip of pessimism really wears me down.

To get a realistic point of view, listen to SOL on radio Manchester tonight at 6pm, whose answering questions on exactly this topic. As he's journeyed over almost two decades he'll have a great comparison to go off.

[the pieman]

I don't understand how we can say that the standard in SL is plummeting. Our top teams' results in the last 3 years against NRL teams have been no better or worse than in the years before that. England, with an SL core, were very competitive indeed against the Kangaroos and beat Tonga with its many SL stars, in a hostile environment. I think the games are often very entertaining, and for a team with the talent of Huddersfield or Catalans (both with players who have starred in the NRL) to be in the bottom 2 suggests that the strength in depth is as high as it has ever been.

Barba stands out, but then he stood out in the NRL.

I think that arguably the top teams are less mighty than some, but the strength in depth is better than any time I can remember.

When Wigan won their first Wembley that I can remember, while we had Kenny and Ferguson, players like Dunn, Courtney, Kiss, Campbell and Donlan would never get within a million miles of the current team. Not to say that I didn't enjoy watching them.

It could be better, of course, but that has always been the case.

Competition against the NRL teams is completely irrelevant as the its never done on an even keel and a lot of the NRL teams dont even take it seriously. Whenever we go there we get battered.

I have posted before about this and its easy to show the standard slip. Simply look at the line ups of the most famous teams like Wigan and Saints - once full of "established" stars they are now made up of "potential" stars. When the "best" teams have diluted in quality and are still the "best" teams -that tells you the standard has gone down

That's not to say that relative speaking there's much difference to the product, it just means that the product as a whole doesn't have the quality it once had and i don't know how anyone can argue otherwise.

this is what i have alluded to previously on topics re Wigan / Super league

when i look at the Wigan teams of the last 30 or so years that i have watched the game and try to compare how many of the current setup would get into a Wigan all time 13 - in reality possibly none. may be a bit harsh on some of the current players but that would be my opinion

this is also what i see across all of super league, just look at the best Saints, Leeds, Bradford ( i know not SL any more) and how many of their current teams would get into a best of over the last 20-30 years - probably not many

i personally think the quality of the game has gone down significantly to create a more level playing field. Instead of driving the lesser teams standards up we have brought the better sides down to even it out

i could be wrong and it could just be the entertainment value is not there for me any more as i dont look forward to watching any game of RL at the minute irrelevant of Wigan playing or not, whereas even 10 years ago i would watch Wigan home and away and other games on SKY

there is poss only 1 player in SL at the minute that i would go out of my way to pay to watch and he is at Saints.

There doesnt feel like there are any super stars any more. That could be that they are all plying their trade in Oz or RU, or we just dont market them well enough and get them out in the media / advertising etc.

i feel like i am doing the current players a disservice with what i am saying, but they will always get my respect for playing the game as it is bloody tough, but where is the next Martin Offiah, Ellery Hanley, Jamie Lyon, Lesley Vainikolo who would put bums on seats?

[moto748]

but where is the next Martin Offiah, Ellery Hanley, Jamie Lyon, Lesley Vainikolo who would put bums on seats?

Almost certainly they'd be playing RU, unfortunately.

[DaveO]

You can put that down to new coach syndrome Dave, we see it all the time, he wasn't all that good in his second season, fans often go way over the top when talking about Madge

No, you really can't do that. The way the team played was radically different and they were ten times fitter. I don't think I have ever seen a more complete Wigan performance in the modern era than in the GF win. He was here two seasons and won a major trophy in each whereas in the three years prior we never looked like winning anything and didn't. You don't get such a dramatic turnaround down to "new coach syndrome".

Yes you do, the proof is out there, you just got to look

I saw what I saw and as I said such chalk and cheese turnarounds are not the new coach syndrome. That might work for a few games but not an entire season and not to come up with such a comprehensive and dominant victory over Saints in the GF. You are so wide of the mark on this one it is untrue.