Tonights game

[DaveO]

.... I don't believe Powel is wanes love child. But and its a big but WHY start with Powel in half's when he is for all to see not a natural stand off where Sam is. Escare a natural full back sat on bench taking up a unneeded subs spot. My Thoughts are that SW does not want to leave Powel out so why not start him as hooker if he is as good as people thinks he is then rotate with a hooker on bench if needed.

It's obvious Wane doesn't want to leave Powell out. Accusation of him being his love child are just saracam but for some reason Wane favours Powell when skills wise he doesn't merit it. Who knows why he does? "Kills it" in training? Whatever, Wane took the decision to hand the 7 shirt to a player who has had few games at 7 at senior level and not really shown the attributes of a 7 to warrant it as his full time position. Seems to me Powell banked a lot of credit with Wane when he stepped up in the injury crisis. If so that is all well and good but a more professional coach would say thanks but consider what's best for the team even if that meant leaving Powell out of it.

But instead after 30 mins we are switching fullback stand off and hooker all in one move (all 3 pivotal positions)please don't try to tell me this does not upset balance of both players mind sets and. balance of team. My final point is if SW does not yet know the best positions of Sam and Powel he should not be doing the job.

For me it's not so much not know but why did he even think it was a good idea putting Powell at 7? It seems like guesswork to be honest.

That said I still don't think you can rule out Wane being unduly loyal to players.

[morley pie eater]

"The proof of the pudding is in the eating."

If we win the GF with Powell at 7 for 30 minutes a game, we'll all be happy . . . or maybe not.

[medlocke]

"The proof of the pudding is in the eating."

If we win the GF with Powell at 7 for 30 minutes a game, we'll all be happy . . . or maybe not.

We won it with him at 9 and still nobody believes in him, better hooker than the one who left :exc:

[DaveO]

"The proof of the pudding is in the eating."

If we win the GF with Powell at 7 for 30 minutes a game, we'll all be happy . . . or maybe not.

To me this is the essence of the debate. We could win it with him doing that but it will be a closer result than it needs be if we do on the evidence first three games.

What is your preference? Be nice to Powell and give him a game or pick the best team?

[JUKESAYS]

Who cares what Leeds did or if there is some theory behind this tactic. Look at what is actually happening on the pitch for Wigan when Wane does this and make your judgment on that. That is what everybody else is doing. Those of us who thought this was a stupid idea have been proved right so far and our double winning coach wrong.

Did you say this after the Salford or hull games or has your 100% absolute proof (and bear in mind I'm not sure where you get your 99% of fans from, but I'll guarantee that's not right) that this tactic is stupid/ridiculous is only proved by Friday's result?

Do you bother to read posts properly before replying? I said "Those of us who thought this was a stupid idea have been proved right so far .." because it's not worked in ANY of them, not just the one game we happened to lose. In every game so far there has not failed to be people commenting that we look better when Tomkins is in the halves and Powell offering nothing much at 7.

I find it very strange people are still defending Wane over this musical chairs switch. Pre-season there was plenty of debate about it and while it was all speculation as to how it would pan out that is all it was. Now in three-from-three it looks like a crap move as predicted by some of us.

Yet still we get posts which phrases like " drivel from the we-know-better-than-the-coach " when you can bloody well see the evidence in front of your own eyes.

Your responses to people are getting very patronising and sometimes aggressive lately.

"Do I even bother to read posts"?
No I just reply with whatever codswallop I can think of (if that's what you want me to say).

You said you'd been PROVEN right so far, I'm not sure how you have been PROVEN anything?
And you said "99% of fans", I replied that I would guarantee it wasn't 99% of fans (you didn't reply to that or did you not read my post properly?).

I haven't given my opinion in the subject just pointed out that you seem to be the self appointed judge on what is fact and what isn't and can be dismissed as rubbish. Usually anyone agreeing with you is fact and if they don't you call their opinions rubbish or dismiss them as talking rubbish or other such phrases.
Had chance to spend some time on both sites whilst sat on a beach or next to a pool last 2 weeks so posted more than regular, back to work tomorrow so don't worry, will leave the critics and experts to get on with it a bit more.
However, over Xmas I got a couple of days off and decided to write something positive on rlfans about wigan chances this year. Guess what? There were quite a few people responded and there was far more optimism out there than was being protested at the time.
It's like when we're winning you hardly get a post, lose 1 game and it's like Armageddon!

To all those who do read and want to show some positivity when appropriate, keep up the good work, it can be draining all this negativity and sometimes you feel like giving up.
But I like Josie' s signature and sometimes, just sometimes, you have to remember it's a game, sport, not an exact science and sometimes things don't go according to plan.

PS
Just to show im not just a happy clapper

Our pack needs a overall, TT needs to buck up or ship out (basically just tell him not to pass and run as hard as he can).
Joel was poor, back to last season's performances after a couple of decent opening games.
And how Tony Clubb gets such adulation is beyond me, he was atrocious Friday 1st half and I found it embarrassing him giving it the big un after scoring with 20seconds left.
He should have show a bit more of that first 20mins (but I guess it's ok for him as he has a name and a song the fans can sing to).
I don't care what people's perception of sarge is and whether he is the answer to our long term right side centre, John Bateman definitely isn't.

And finally here goes (you'll all be glad to hear).
I don't think Powell can or should play 7 anymore, whatever chances of that ship sailing blew away 2 years ago. His defense is suspect out wide and we get blown away early down that edge whilst he doesn't offer much at tacking wise.
However talk of him being Wanes love child couldn't be further off the mark.

[DaveO]

Your responses to people are getting very patronising and sometimes aggressive lately.

"Do I even bother to read posts"?
No I just reply with whatever codswallop I can think of (if that's what you want me to say).

I just expect you to not make straw man arguments up.

You said you'd been PROVEN right so far, I'm not sure how you have been PROVEN anything?
And you said "99% of fans", I replied that I would guarantee it wasn't 99% of fans (you didn't reply to that or did you not read my post properly?).

In all three games so far the half back switch has done nothing for us and with Powell at 7 early doors we are not as effective. Unless you disagree with this I am not sure what your beef is.

My 99% was probably too generous in hindsight. I had assumed most fans would spot the obvious.

I haven't given my opinion in the subject just pointed out that you seem to be the self appointed judge on what is fact and what isn't and can be dismissed as rubbish. Usually anyone agreeing with you is fact and if they don't you call their opinions rubbish or dismiss them as talking rubbish or other such phrases.
Had chance to spend some time on both sites whilst sat on a beach or next to a pool last 2 weeks so posted more than regular, back to work tomorrow so don't worry, will leave the critics and experts to get on with it a bit more.

I can't be bothered to respond to the above other than to say I don't think it is surprising that such as yourself who are quick to criticise this site on rlfans have started to show up here more often. I know why. rlfans is unfortunately pretty dead. Killed off by over zealous moderation and a gang culture that says if you disagree with the party line you are bullied. Posting on there is treading on eggshells. I have a thick skin so I offer what are my honest opinions. Rouges and others never like them.

And finally here goes (you'll all be glad to hear).
I don't think Powell can or should play 7 anymore, whatever chances of that ship sailing blew away 2 years ago. His defense is suspect out wide and we get blown away early down that edge whilst he doesn't offer much at tacking wise.
However talk of him being Wanes love child couldn't be further off the mark.

So basically you agree with the majority (it might even br 99%..)

[JUKESAYS]

Your responses to people are getting very patronising and sometimes aggressive lately.

"Do I even bother to read posts"?
No I just reply with whatever codswallop I can think of (if that's what you want me to say).

I just expect you to not make straw man arguments up.

You said you'd been PROVEN right so far, I'm not sure how you have been PROVEN anything?
And you said "99% of fans", I replied that I would guarantee it wasn't 99% of fans (you didn't reply to that or did you not read my post properly?).

In all three games so far the half back switch has done nothing for us and with Powell at 7 early doors we are not as effective. Unless you disagree with this I am not sure what your beef is.

My 99% was probably too generous in hindsight. I had assumed most fans would spot the obvious.

I haven't given my opinion in the subject just pointed out that you seem to be the self appointed judge on what is fact and what isn't and can be dismissed as rubbish. Usually anyone agreeing with you is fact and if they don't you call their opinions rubbish or dismiss them as talking rubbish or other such phrases.
Had chance to spend some time on both sites whilst sat on a beach or next to a pool last 2 weeks so posted more than regular, back to work tomorrow so don't worry, will leave the critics and experts to get on with it a bit more.

I can't be bothered to respond to the above other than to say I don't think it is surprising that such as yourself who are quick to criticise this site on rlfans have started to show up here more often. I know why. rlfans is unfortunately pretty dead. Killed off by over zealous moderation and a gang culture that says if you disagree with the party line you are bullied. Posting on there is treading on eggshells. I have a thick skin so I offer what are my honest opinions. Rouges and others never like them.

And finally here goes (you'll all be glad to hear).
I don't think Powell can or should play 7 anymore, whatever chances of that ship sailing blew away 2 years ago. His defense is suspect out wide and we get blown away early down that edge whilst he doesn't offer much at tacking wise.
However talk of him being Wanes love child couldn't be further off the mark.

So basically you agree with the majority (it might even br 99%..)

Not good at the quoting bit so aplogies if this isn't easy to follow.


Straw man arguments- not sure what mine are supposed to be but for God's sake even you can see that half the time your the worst in the world at making them and dressing them up as facts.

You assumed that most fans would have spotted the obvious (that the switch doesn't work).
How patronising of you and typical of your attitude that if anyone doesn't agree with you they're some kind of fool.

With regards to me criticising this site, go on then "Daveo quotathon " me! I bet I've hardly made a comment about this site over there. FWIW I prefer RL Fans as I prefer to listen to opinions of all teams fans not just my own. I'd hate to see any Wigan site go like redvee.
As for why less are posting I would suggest there are many reasons other than your once again "self.proclaimed alternative version of facts" that are far more truthful.
You sound like Jack Nicholson in a few good men, truth - you can't Handle the truth.
Well just to let you know I can Handle opinions, I can handle facts, some like you seem to choose when it suits to mix the 2 up depending on whether it suits your agenda.
For the last 15 months or so it's been pretty boring watching every thread you post on relating any subject get twisted into an anti Wane or IFL post. To be honest some of what you say is pretty relevant but it seems to get lost in my eyes mixed in with all the other stuff that half the time is biased comments dressed up as facts.
As for being bullied etc if you don't toe the party line in rlfans, absolute rubbish, if anything it's the other way round.
Currently if you don't hate wane/ifl or Dan sarginson or defned them in any way your critised as a happy clapper or a fool.

I don't know what rogues does or doesn't think, what I do know is usually his and other people's opinions are discussed without being responded to like your a fool or an idiot if you don't agree with them.

"It may even be 99%". So what your saying is you have absolutely no idea if it is or it isn't 99%.
As I said, thanks for confirming another one of your facts that wasnt a fact.

And as for showing up on here more often, it's nice to know I'm not welcome. Been a member for maybe 15 years and made 170ish posts, maybe that's too many eh daveo?
I bet I've posted 10times prior to this thread in last 2/3 months but that's still too much for you?
I mean who would like a site that only has people of all the same opinions on it?
I know, someone like you who complains about being bullied or ganged up on when anyone disagrees with you whilst claiming to have a thick skin. Oh, and now doesn't seem to want anyone else coming onto their mouthpiece message board.

Anyway, as i said back to work tomorrow.
I'll continue to read daily (if that's ok with you?) and post occasionally, I average about 1 post a month usually so I hope that doesn't bother you too much?

[morley pie eater]

"The proof of the pudding is in the eating."

If we win the GF with Powell at 7 for 30 minutes a game, we'll all be happy . . . or maybe not.

To me this is the essence of the debate. We could win it with him doing that but it will be a closer result than it needs be if we do on the evidence first three games.

What is your preference? Be nice to Powell and give him a game or pick the best team?

To answer your question, it's necessary to examine my whole approach:

I've watched the game for a long time and even played it (badly) for a while - I have a runners-up trophy from the Bradford 7s, circa 1980, to prove it! I also did a bit of coaching with a school team and was emergency ref for one game.

Despite (or because of?) all this, I'm aware that others know more about the game than I do. When, for example, Cas dazzle teams with their play, I watch and try to understand what it is that they're doing better than other teams and what defences do to counter this: ie I'm learning from the likes of D Powell, but always at least a step or two behind.

Like most fans, I've often had opinions on what various Wigan coaches should have done, who they should play, or what I'd have done different. Most times events prove that they knew better than me. It's a bit like swearing at the ref at a match, then getting home and watching it on replay and realising (often) that he was right!

So, as I've got older, I suppose I've learned more about my limitations and settled down to enjoy the game without, in most cases, having to feel that I know better than the people who are actually involved.

For example, I wouldn't have let MM go, but accept that I don't have all the facts re salary, attitude, fitness/ injuries etc.

So when it comes to Sam Powell at 7, I watch with interest to see how things develop. I don't think "Wane should be doing it diffierent", but just watch with interest, stay positive and happy clappy, and see what happens next.

I really feel that we're going to do well this year. The question "would we have done better if..." won't occur to me when we win the GF.

[TrueBlueWarrior]

Jet lag or no jet lag some players need to stand up and be counted, whether tired or not, some of the effort was not acceptable in my opinion.

Some players do stand up to be counted but simply aren't good enough.

I will give the benefit of the doubt due to the Australia trip and see how well we bounce back from it.

As for Wire, I think that's as good as they can be and probably as bad as we can be, yet surprisingly we could have still won.

I have no concerns about Wire being a threat to us at all.

Finally, Ben Thaler, he really does not like us does he!

[fozzieskem]

PS
Just to show im not just a happy clapper

Our pack needs a overall, TT needs to buck up or ship out (basically just tell him not to pass and run as hard as he can).
Joel was poor, back to last season's performances after a couple of decent opening games.
And how Tony Clubb gets such adulation is beyond me, he was atrocious Friday 1st half and I found it embarrassing him giving it the big un after scoring with 20seconds left.
He should have show a bit more of that first 20mins (but I guess it's ok for him as he has a name and a song the fans can sing to).
I don't care what people's perception of sarge is and whether he is the answer to our long term right side centre, John Bateman definitely isn't.

And finally here goes (you'll all be glad to hear).
I don't think Powell can or should play 7 anymore, whatever chances of that ship sailing blew away 2 years ago. His defense is suspect out wide and we get blown away early down that edge whilst he doesn't offer much at tacking wise.
However talk of him being Wanes love child couldn't be further off the mark.

Thought i was the only one who thought Clubb was bang on average game,most if not all of Friday night,I do like the guy he’s the closest thing we have to a proper prop size wise,I’ll say it again Crosby and Hill where head and shoulders above anything the props of Wigan could muster.

I hope it was a one off.