This Season

[ChrisA]

This is my take on this season, regarding recruitment and injuries and players leaving.

First off, trying to replace Lam with someone of equal talent if not better would have meant getting Kimmorley or Johns, and that wasnt going to happen.
ML went for a guy proven in SL and a proven try scorer, things havent gone right for him much this year, but I for one know that with a good pack in front of him going forward and players actually running for him and giving him options he will be 5 times the player he is at the moment.

Same with Craig Smith, he was going to very hard to replace. We signed Seuseu at the start of last season to come over this year, and at the time he was playing well and had just come off a good season and Tri-Nations with NZ. He hasnt been what Smith was, but not many would in their first season at a club, time will tell as to wether he still has it or not, I think he will be better next season once he gets more support upfront.

Davico couldnt be helped, he was fit when we signed him and ML was assured he was fit before he came over, nobody including Davico knew that he had developed a cyst in the torn pec he had, and that had prevented it healing fully. Its a shame because the guy had been a solid reliable player for years in the NRL, and he would have been exactly what we needed this year.

Dave V is a good ball handler who is always looking to setup his winger, we dont have any other centres who can do what he can do and we havent had for years, I think if you asked Dallas who he wanted to play outside he would pick Dave V over Aspy and Wild every time.

Godwin, most of people on this site and most wont admit it, were asking why we had signed him, most had the oppinon that he was no better than Mark Smith and it was a complete waste of time, I was one of the few who said that Smith had been in the first team since 2000 and had had plenty of time to show what he can do, he got to a level were he wasnt improving and wasnt really good enough. I was pleased with the Godwin signing as I rated him when he was at Cas, and hes gone on to prove me and a few others on this board and ML right by believing in the signing.

Luke Robinson, I believe that something happened with him at Wigan that the club disliked immensely, rumour has it that he was the guy who leaked it to the press about Pongia and his hepytitus and that the club took a dim view, whether this is true or not only a few people will know, but I do feel there was more to it than just playing ability, if it was based on that I think he would still be at the club.

This season has been hard in so many ways, I do agree that the players we have brought in havnt been as good as the ones they replaced, but replacing Lam and Smith especially is not a job I would like. Add to that Farrel dipping out on us, and then just as we find out properly he could be going, Hock gets injured and is out for the season and then Lockers aswel, then we had Moran out for a few games, when he gets back Orr gets injured and has been on and off ever since, then we have Carney and his pathetically weak hamstrings, and if all that isnt enough we get Rads injured and out for months, then we hear hes off to union. With all this we have been forced into playing alot of kids, unfortunatly the majority of them are not really good enough, or not good enough yet, I suspect very few of them will actually ever be good enough to play in he first team on merit rather than necessity because of injuries. All this adds up to a difficult season, and this is exactly what we are having.

Now though we have a good coach who likes to play the kind of rugby that the fans love to see, add to that the signings we have made for next year, and with the promise of more to follow, things are looking up at last.

Lastly, if players like Rads and Carney want to leave then get them out, as I've said before I dont want to waste my time and money watching players put in half assed efforts at a club they dont want to play for, its a waste of their time and more importantly its a waste of our time the fans, because without the fans they would have nothing. I want to pay my money and watch players who want to play for Wigan, and who want to play for the Wigan fans.

[adrenalinxx]

Dave V is a good ball handler who is always looking to setup his winger, we dont have any other centres who can do what he can do and we havent had for years, I think if you asked Dallas who he wanted to play outside he would pick Dave V over Aspy and Wild every time.

DV may be a great attacking player but is defence is the worst I’ve seen, he can't tackle properly and he tries to make up for this by running out the line, when it works he usually puts the players on the ground but when he misses it's a certain try. Just look at the Bradford game at the JJB the Bradford centres ran rings around DV and exploited his poor defence, other clubs will do the same next year. A player with the size and strength he has could do so much more.

As for Aspy and Wild, Aspy scored to tries against Leigh, ok is performances so far haven't been great but he is improving every week and his defence his good, not many people make a break on apsinwalls side and he handle Michael De Vere well when we played Huddersfield.
Wild has the potential to be a great player his ball skills are just as good a DVs and his as strong and powerful as Hock the problem with Wild is he seems to have forgot how good and how big he actually is and Wild setup Carney for the try against Leeds last year when we drew and early this year him and aspinwall where destorying the right side of the saints defence until the forward pass from Aspinwall.

[ChrisA]

adrenalinxx posted:

Dave V is a good ball handler who is always looking to setup his winger, we dont have any other centres who can do what he can do and we havent had for years, I think if you asked Dallas who he wanted to play outside he would pick Dave V over Aspy and Wild every time.

DV may be a great attacking player but is defence is the worst I’ve seen, he can't tackle properly and he tries to make up for this by running out the line, when it works he usually puts the players on the ground but when he misses it's a certain try. Just look at the Bradford game at the JJB the Bradford centres ran rings around DV and exploited his poor defence, other clubs will do the same next year. A player with the size and strength he has could do so much more.

As for Aspy and Wild, Aspy scored to tries against Leigh, ok is performances so far haven't been great but he is improving every week and his defence his good, not many people make a break on apsinwalls side and he handle Michael De Vere well when we played Huddersfield.
Wild has the potential to be a great player his ball skills are just as good a DVs and his as strong and powerful as Hock the problem with Wild is he seems to have forgot how good and how big he actually is and Wild setup Carney for the try against Leeds last year when we drew and early this year him and aspinwall where destorying the right side of the saints defence until the forward pass from Aspinwall.

I think we watch different games and have a very different view on what makes a good player. If you really think that Aspy and Wild are good centres, you are either easily plaesed or pretty new to the game.

Aspy did score 2 tries yeah, we needed them, but anybody who plays to super league standardcould have scored them, but what happened when he got in the clear and had to make a simple pass to Carney who would have scored, he threw it in touch, the guy cant pass and has no vision what so ever hes like a race horse with blinkers on.

Wild has a little more vision and ball skill than Aspinwall does, but hes so lethargic going forward, hes big and fast but he doesnt use it, he never looks like hes going to break a tackle, and for a guy as big and as fast as that its not good enough, hes not a young kid anymore, he needs to improve or he will be trotting out for Wakey or Widnes next season.

As for saying Dave V cant tackle, I havnt seen him miss to many this year when he has played, he made a few errors early in the year by rushing out of the line, but they arent missed tackles. People just seem to pick up on what others say and carry it on if it fits their general oppinion of a player, whether its true or not.

[superleague]

dave v has gud ball handling skills but is not very fit so that lets him down for me u watch after 20 mins hes nackered.

[AncientWarrior]

What an excellent post, ChrisA.

You have captured the essence of this ill-fated season in one post - something the rest of us have been trying to do for the last few weeks.

I should like to add, however, that the team which has broken up before our eyes was not a particularly successful one. One Grand Final win and one CC win is not exactly par for the course for Wigan RL in a ten year period.

Millward says that he has never met a quieter group of players - perhaps that is because they were not encouraged to have an input under the old regime - who knows?

I am sure that Wigan can put together a much better outfit and I look forward to that day!!

[robjoenz]

ChrisA posted:
First off, trying to replace Lam with someone of equal talent if not better would have meant getting Kimmorley or Johns, and that wasnt going to happen.
ML went for a guy proven in SL and a proven try scorer, things havent gone right for him much this year, but I for one know that with a good pack in front of him going forward and players actually running for him and giving him options he will be 5 times the player he is at the moment.

I also hope he makes less mistakes. I have always defended Moran because when he's got into the opposition line he's always caused some trouble. He's thrown some pretty wild passes though and made some dodgy attempts at tackling. As well as having a decent team around him he needs to work on his self discipline.

Same with Craig Smith, he was going to very hard to replace. We signed Seuseu at the start of last season to come over this year, and at the time he was playing well and had just come off a good season and Tri-Nations with NZ. He hasnt been what Smith was, but not many would in their first season at a club, time will tell as to wether he still has it or not, I think he will be better next season once he gets more support upfront.

Not sure how the support up front will make a prop better, maybe needs a kick up the backside like Smith and O'Conner did when Pongia arrived.

Dave V is a good ball handler who is always looking to setup his winger, we dont have any other centres who can do what he can do and we havent had for years, I think if you asked Dallas who he wanted to play outside he would pick Dave V over Aspy and Wild every time.

The trouble with Vaealiki is his defence, he only seems to make a tackle when another player stops the attacker first. As Adreneline said a guy of his size ought to be able to stop players dead, his positioning is poor too, he's been caught out on several occassions, most notably against Bradford. He has shown some good handling to set up Dallas but I can only think of two maybe three instances where he has shown this. Before his injury against UTC he was starting to look better all round but still looked quite shakey in defence. He had a quiet first game back, hopefully he'll start to improve again starting with Warrington.

Godwin, most of people on this site and most wont admit it, were asking why we had signed him, most had the opinion that he was no better than Mark Smith and it was a complete waste of time, I was one of the few who said that Smith had been in the first team since 2000 and had had plenty of time to show what he can do, he got to a level were he wasnt improving and wasnt really good enough. I was pleased with the Godwin signing as I rated him when he was at Cas, and hes gone on to prove me and a few others on this board and ML right by believing in the signing.

I seem to remember most people saying that we were right to let Smith go and sign Godwin and that I was in the minority saying it was a pointless venture. I am pleased to hold my hands up and say I was wrong. Whilst I rated Mark Smith I do think that Godwin does have more impact when he comes off the bench and attacks a tiring forward line.

Luke Robinson, I believe that something happened with him at Wigan that the club disliked immensely, rumour has it that he was the guy who leaked it to the press about Pongia and his hepytitus and that the club took a dim view, whether this is true or not only a few people will know, but I do feel there was more to it than just playing ability, if it was based on that I think he would still be at the club.

I am of the same opinion, there has to be more to it than the club just deciding he wasn't good enough.

Now though we have a good coach who likes to play the kind of rugby that the fans love to see, add to that the signings we have made for next year, and with the promise of more to follow, things are looking up at last.

I reckon we'll need another couple of years before we start to see a marked improvement on the last two seasons. I am wondering whether part of our poor performances since Millward took over is him telling players they don't feature in his plans and them not being able concentrate properly.

[DaveO]

ChrisA posted:

Lastly, if players like Rads and Carney want to leave then get them out, as I've said before I dont want to waste my time and money watching players put in half assed efforts at a club they dont want to play for, its a waste of their time and more importantly its a waste of our time the fans, because without the fans they would have nothing. I want to pay my money and watch players who want to play for Wigan, and who want to play for the Wigan fans.

Good post ChrisA and I agree with just about everything you say, particularly about how (in essence) the new players could really not fill the boots of the old very easily and that it could not be foreseen that the likes of Sesseu haven't been that great.

As to the quote above I am sure you will by now know who wants to play for Wigan and who does not out of that pair and I very pleased (understatement).

I do think the biggest disappointments this season have been Farrell's exit and the fact Apsy and Wild have not kicked on to better performances.

I think the whole way the Farrell thing was handled can’t have done a great deal for the team spirit never mind the fact we lost his services as a player.

Given Radlinski's commitment to the club today I wish the RFU had only come in for Farrell about now having seen his injury situation. If so I bet he would also have knocked them back as I am sure he is as distraught about our situation as the rest of us.

I still think Mo should have made him play to the end of this season and that the whole thing was gross mismanagement by Mo but I don' think Mo deserves slagging off for all the other signings not performing due to people having 20/20 hindsight.

For Aspy and Wild I reckon they have blown their chances. Their positions in the 17 have been more or less assured all season due to injuries so it was their chance to stake a real claim for a place.

I don't think either of them have done that and any improvement from now on might already be too late.

I have some sympathy with both of them being played out of position quite a bit, more so Aspy who obviously hated it on the wing early on this season but I can't help thinking if they were really class players they would have stood up much more than they have given the situation.

With Wild he seems to be turning into Simon Haughton MkII. He had a great first season, got injured, didn't do so well when he came back. Very similar to Haughton IMO. However last season Wild looked to be improving but then he has dropped back again this season.

RL clubs can't keep waiting for players to find form and have to make a judgement at the time they need to make it as to whether a player is good enough to hold a 20/20 slot. If there are plainly better players available then Wild and Aspy are very vulnerable based on this seasons form IMO.

Brown is one player you didn't mention. He is another who could find himself on his way if he is not careful. He does seem a darn sight more committed than Aspy or Wild at times but he scares the living daylights out of me every time he gets the ball and seems to come up with at least one crucial mistake per game that cost us points on the scoreboard. In fact given some of our close results this year he has, IMO, cost us league points.

[Exiled Wiganer]

I am optimistic about next year, particularly in the forwards. With an off season to work on them, Millward will make a huge difference in the fitness and technique of our men. Saints are far fitter than we are, which is why they win so many games at the death. If we bring Gulavao on board, our starting pack next year could be - Palaaaaaaasina, Newton, Fletcher, Gulavao, Hock and O'Loughlin. essebtially an entirely new pack, with go forward, power and skill.

This will allow Tickle and Hansen to slot into a powerful pack. I also think that 2 decent props could emerge from Scully (I like his new, simpler game), Seu Seu (jury's out, but even Smith took a while to get going), Hargreaves (good against Salford) and Prescott. And Godwin will continue to be good value off the bench.

The backs worry me, though having Rads secured is a great thing. If fit and interested, Carney would be excellent. Dallas and Richards could both do a job.

Apart from that, I have no idea what we should do in the centres and the halves, but even if all we do is keep our current mob, with that pack I could see us safely in the 6 and able to cause an upset against anyone.

[GeoffN]

I agree with the comments about the comparative failure of our new signings, apart from Godwin, in that ML really isn't to blame. His biggest mistake, IMO, was in letting too many experienced forwards go at the same time. We should have kept at least one of Terry O, Smith and Cassidy (preferably Smith) for one more season.

[DaiJones]

Good comments chaps. I agree that our pack is beginning to take shape but I'd like to see us buy a class centre/utility (Reardon maybe not sure he is a top centre) possibly a half back (unless Moran or Orr really pull up trees in the tail end of the season) and an exciting back with a view to the future(not sure who, again I'll mention a realistic Union signing like Marcel Garvey)