Sammut leaves...

Discuss all things Wigan Warriors. Comments and opinions on all aspects of the club's performance are welcome.
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Wigan_forever1985
Posts: 5233
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:50 pm

Re: Sammut leaves...

Post by Wigan_forever1985 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:28 am

Its disappointing he didnt get more of a run in the side i think his opportunity was missed due to injury but i suppose if we are keeping shorrocks (and i believe lam likes him) then there is absolutley no need for sammut.

French at 6 is an interesting one - it could work if we dont play split halves - give Hastings free roam to organise and pass and leave french to be a complete x factor
Always be yourself - unless you can be Dan Bilzerian then ALWAYS be Dan Bilzerian!

CheshireWarrior
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:58 pm

Re: Sammut leaves...

Post by CheshireWarrior » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:35 pm

fozzieskem wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:40 pm
CheshireWarrior wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:53 pm
Wiganer Ted wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:12 am
I thought Sammut added to the team when he played.
We were all over Cas at their place until he was injured then when he was off they fell off a cliff.
When Wakey came to ours he ran them ragged. Completely ran the show. Good interception try too.
Lam must know why he played him so little.

This season had better be a good one for Lam's sake. With this squad and the cost of it one trophy is a must. Another blank season just won't be acceptable.
Agreed on both counts! I personally think Sammut and Hastings are the most experienced and fluent 6 and 7 combination we could have had for 2020. Unless I'm missing something about French nothing convinces me he is a stand off apart from his lightening pace?

I know some fans didn't rate Lam in 2019 but all things considered, I think he stabilised the team (which was needed IMO). I agree though I think we certainly have much more experience and depth now to realistically start a fresh and pick something up hopefully.
I don't think the WCC helped at all last season,all well and good to be involved but as in 2017 it seemed to screw the season so you have to factor in that with regards to Lam,that and the abject stupidity of the Edwards affair which again all added to that weird season.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't think Lam is the man to lead Wigan onwards (and I do love to be proven wrongs here's hoping),his downright weird team selections at times, ill not blame him for the Samutt signing as I say a gamble it didn't work out,all lead me to think its not the right fit for Wigan,time will tell because this season there's simply no hiding place for him,Lenegans backed him big and he will, rightly want bits of silverware for 2021 team photo.
I certainly agree with the Shaun Edwards saga, it wasn't ideal at all and surely must have impacted his 'short-term' influence? Tough condtions to walk into IMO!
I think the WCC is a tough one, I look back now simply at the quality of Cronulla 2017 V Sydney 2019 and think the quality of the Roosters speaks volumes! A lot of fans consider it a failure losing but for me, it was a HUGE ask for ANY SL team to beat that Roosters team!

For me, I think Lam in 2019 deserved considerable praise for the following reasons,
- Stability after Wanes departure
- Culture of Wigan in 2019 (Zak, Hamlin, TT, Mullen etc)
- Management of Shaun Edwards saga
- Finishing 2nd behind a very dominant Stains team and developing consistency

I think for what he was walking into and after having Wane for so long it was going to be huge for any head coach. I agree, he is not without fault though and I think his previous squad selections and this seasons squad numbers are certainly sketchy to say the least. I agree also, Sammut was a 'gamble' but I dont believe he had enough game time to justify either staying or going.
For me, the squad is good enough to win at least one trophy next season! I really hope French at standoff works because I'm not convinced at all.

DaveO
Posts: 14263
Joined: Mon Sep 30, 2002 5:32 pm

Sammut leaves...

Post by DaveO » Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:55 am

CheshireWarrior wrote:
fozzieskem wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:40 pm
CheshireWarrior wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:53 pm


Agreed on both counts! I personally think Sammut and Hastings are the most experienced and fluent 6 and 7 combination we could have had for 2020. Unless I'm missing something about French nothing convinces me he is a stand off apart from his lightening pace?

I know some fans didn't rate Lam in 2019 but all things considered, I think he stabilised the team (which was needed IMO). I agree though I think we certainly have much more experience and depth now to realistically start a fresh and pick something up hopefully.
I don't think the WCC helped at all last season,all well and good to be involved but as in 2017 it seemed to screw the season so you have to factor in that with regards to Lam,that and the abject stupidity of the Edwards affair which again all added to that weird season.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't think Lam is the man to lead Wigan onwards (and I do love to be proven wrongs here's hoping),his downright weird team selections at times, ill not blame him for the Samutt signing as I say a gamble it didn't work out,all lead me to think its not the right fit for Wigan,time will tell because this season there's simply no hiding place for him,Lenegans backed him big and he will, rightly want bits of silverware for 2021 team photo.
I certainly agree with the Shaun Edwards saga, it wasn't ideal at all and surely must have impacted his 'short-term' influence? Tough condtions to walk into IMO!
I think the WCC is a tough one, I look back now simply at the quality of Cronulla 2017 V Sydney 2019 and think the quality of the Roosters speaks volumes! A lot of fans consider it a failure losing but for me, it was a HUGE ask for ANY SL team to beat that Roosters team!

For me, I think Lam in 2019 deserved considerable praise for the following reasons,
- Stability after Wanes departure
- Culture of Wigan in 2019 (Zak, Hamlin, TT, Mullen etc)
- Management of Shaun Edwards saga
- Finishing 2nd behind a very dominant Stains team and developing consistency

I think for what he was walking into and after having Wane for so long it was going to be huge for any head coach. I agree, he is not without fault though and I think his previous squad selections and this seasons squad numbers are certainly sketchy to say the least. I agree also, Sammut was a 'gamble' but I dont believe he had enough game time to justify either staying or going.
For me, the squad is good enough to win at least one trophy next season! I really hope French at standoff works because I'm not convinced at all.
I am not convinced about French at stand off either and agree with the idea that is why we have TL on the playing roster still.

Sammut can’t have been expensive and now we will have a reserve side he might have made an ideal back up with some experience for when injuries occurred or even as an alternative to TL in the first 13 if French doesn’t work out at 6.

Smacks of cost cutting to me but I thought he had a two year deal with us???

As to Lam I can’t say I agree with any of you four plus points.

Coaches leave clubs all the time. Usually a new coach injects some zip by just being different. There was no instability after Wane left and the players new he was leaving long before Lam arrived.. Several including Hardaker never played under Wane anyway.

I have no idea what you mean by culture. The transgressions occurred before he got here and were dealt with before he took charge.

He’d got nothing to do with the (lack of) management of the Edwards saga.

Finishing 3rd (not 2nd, that was Salford) was a failure not just because we lost but due to the manner of it. He was coached off the park by the Salford and Saints coaches.

It’s the last one that is the real issue. His job is to coach the team. The rest is IL and Rads job. His performance in the finals was very poor. Picking the same team so they could redeem themselves v Salford after losing to Saints was naive.

CheshireWarrior
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:58 pm

Re: Sammut leaves...

Post by CheshireWarrior » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:10 pm

DaveO wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:55 am
CheshireWarrior wrote:
fozzieskem wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:40 pm


I don't think the WCC helped at all last season,all well and good to be involved but as in 2017 it seemed to screw the season so you have to factor in that with regards to Lam,that and the abject stupidity of the Edwards affair which again all added to that weird season.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't think Lam is the man to lead Wigan onwards (and I do love to be proven wrongs here's hoping),his downright weird team selections at times, ill not blame him for the Samutt signing as I say a gamble it didn't work out,all lead me to think its not the right fit for Wigan,time will tell because this season there's simply no hiding place for him,Lenegans backed him big and he will, rightly want bits of silverware for 2021 team photo.
I certainly agree with the Shaun Edwards saga, it wasn't ideal at all and surely must have impacted his 'short-term' influence? Tough condtions to walk into IMO!
I think the WCC is a tough one, I look back now simply at the quality of Cronulla 2017 V Sydney 2019 and think the quality of the Roosters speaks volumes! A lot of fans consider it a failure losing but for me, it was a HUGE ask for ANY SL team to beat that Roosters team!

For me, I think Lam in 2019 deserved considerable praise for the following reasons,
- Stability after Wanes departure
- Culture of Wigan in 2019 (Zak, Hamlin, TT, Mullen etc)
- Management of Shaun Edwards saga
- Finishing 2nd behind a very dominant Stains team and developing consistency

I think for what he was walking into and after having Wane for so long it was going to be huge for any head coach. I agree, he is not without fault though and I think his previous squad selections and this seasons squad numbers are certainly sketchy to say the least. I agree also, Sammut was a 'gamble' but I dont believe he had enough game time to justify either staying or going.
For me, the squad is good enough to win at least one trophy next season! I really hope French at standoff works because I'm not convinced at all.
I am not convinced about French at stand off either and agree with the idea that is why we have TL on the playing roster still.

Sammut can’t have been expensive and now we will have a reserve side he might have made an ideal back up with some experience for when injuries occurred or even as an alternative to TL in the first 13 if French doesn’t work out at 6.

Smacks of cost cutting to me but I thought he had a two year deal with us???

As to Lam I can’t say I agree with any of you four plus points.

Coaches leave clubs all the time. Usually a new coach injects some zip by just being different. There was no instability after Wane left and the players new he was leaving long before Lam arrived.. Several including Hardaker never played under Wane anyway.

I have no idea what you mean by culture. The transgressions occurred before he got here and were dealt with before he took charge.

He’d got nothing to do with the (lack of) management of the Edwards saga.

Finishing 3rd (not 2nd, that was Salford) was a failure not just because we lost but due to the manner of it. He was coached off the park by the Salford and Saints coaches.

It’s the last one that is the real issue. His job is to coach the team. The rest is IL and Rads job. His performance in the finals was very poor. Picking the same team so they could redeem themselves v Salford after losing to Saints was naive.
I think Leuluai will work well off the bench providing cover for Hastings/Powell.

I think it took Lam considerable time to install 'zip' as you put it and for the reasons I've listed.
There clearly was instability as results were so hit and miss (excluding the WCC) which I think surely must have been influenced by the players and coaching staff adapting to Lam, all coaches surely have their own unique style (especially after Wane for so long).
The culture which in one season highlighted two first team players receiving criminal convictions and one being banned for performance related drugs (possibly carried over or influenced by 2018 antics too of Tomkins and Zak).
Lam as a head coach (initially) had to manage his 'temporary status' and again I wonder how much respect he initially received before the Edwards saga was put to bed. Surely its different when somebody of Edwards status is coming in and in effect Lam was keep his chair warm!

I agree the playoff didn't go to plan but to install professionalism and discipline, to MAJORLY improve our form to finish 2nd and for the quality of players we have signed for 2020, I think Lam deserves a lot of praise and surely current players and imports have faith in him and his plans.

I know we both sit in different camps regarding Lam and I'm not suggesting he is perfect but I think with everything happening at the club in 2019 and to see how we turned around he deserves a lot of praise! I look at it like this, we could have very easily done a Leeds Rhinos last season and personally I'm glad both he and the club stayed together!

However, dont misunderstand me, I could be foolish in saying this but I have so much expectation already simply looking at our playing roster and believe we should win at least one trophy this season coming and I think this is the season to really place judgement on Lam!

Caboosegg
Posts: 1689
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:51 pm

Re: Sammut leaves...

Post by Caboosegg » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:04 am

The concern over Lam should be that regardless of how the season ended we failed in every challenging game.

If we had managed to beat Saints and Warrington when it mattered i wouldnt be concerned.
The Turkeys voted for Christmas.

fozzieskem
Posts: 3085
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 10:54 am

Re: Sammut leaves...

Post by fozzieskem » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:45 am

Points wise Wigan were nearer the bottom than the top that’s damning in my eyes,Lam has a hell of a lot to prove this season and will have to hit the ground running that’s for sure

pedro
Posts: 4060
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 9:37 pm

Re: Sammutt

Post by pedro » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:47 am

old hooker wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:28 pm
Cant say im worried,hes average at best
yet probably had the best rugby brain at the club last year, go figure
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1857407490.png

pedro
Posts: 4060
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 9:37 pm

Re: Sammut leaves...

Post by pedro » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:49 am

id've let Shorrocks go before him
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1857407490.png

ddtftf
Posts: 1564
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 2:07 pm

Re: Sammut leaves...

Post by ddtftf » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:39 am

Here is a thought to discuss, what about Jackson Hastings at Loose Forward he has a great engine / tackles well / has great vision on the field,/ and knows when to go for a gap in the opposite defence etc ?????????

Wiganer Ted
Posts: 2312
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:31 pm

Re: Sammut leaves...

Post by Wiganer Ted » Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:21 pm

Hastings at 13 would mean TL at 7 all season, no thanks. Tommy should be bench at best otherwise an older head in the reserves.
Hastings at 7 with French 6 surely has to be tried.
Lam was an excellent half back and he should know the business inside out.
This next season perhaps will be a test to see if he can transfer that half back knowledge into coaching talent.

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