Just a feeder club

Discuss all things Wigan Warriors. Comments and opinions on all aspects of the club's performance are welcome.
Woody1989
Posts: 178
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:16 pm

Re: Just a feeder club

Post by Woody1989 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:23 pm

medlocke wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:09 pm
Woody1989 wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:17 pm
Caboosegg wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:13 pm


No they don't its a SL wide issue, the RFL cause this by a Cap, sadly the damage is irreversible and we have fallen that far behind there is very little we can do to catch up.
I thought that originally, but how does that explain teams like Saints holding on to the likes of Lomax, Roby and Makinson, Leeds holding on to Maguire, Burrow and Hall (at least until he past it), Wire holding on to the likes of Ratchford and Clark. These teams seem to be able to instill a level of loyalty that we can't.
Deep pockets and little brown envelopes???
Maybe, but I don't really buy it. I think IL's well known position of allowing players to leave for the NRL/Union so long as Wigan has first option upon their return is probably the biggest reason. That needs to change, they need to start resisting NRL teams and not bending over for them.

nathan_rugby
Posts: 1932
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:12 pm

Re: Just a feeder club

Post by nathan_rugby » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:31 pm

Caboosegg wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:13 pm
shaunedwardsfanclub wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:08 pm
nathan_rugby wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:41 am

How do we avoid it?
IFL and KR need to come up with the answer.
No they don't its a SL wide issue, the RFL cause this by a Cap, sadly the damage is irreversible and we have fallen that far behind there is very little we can do to catch up.
If there was no cap, how much more money would clubs actually have available to spend on players wages?

This point still relevant pre covid.
Bomhead - "Lockers to prop."

nathan_rugby
Posts: 1932
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:12 pm

Re: Just a feeder club

Post by nathan_rugby » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:38 pm

It definitely does feel like we’ve been more hard done to with losing best players than other clubs. Even though Bradford then Leeds then Saints had big periods of dominance.

One part is victim of own success with youth squad, but there’s something else to it!
Bomhead - "Lockers to prop."

First Try Tickle
Posts: 1022
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:15 am

Re: Just a feeder club

Post by First Try Tickle » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:59 pm

Because we are Wigan, the most famous club over here. Aussie's know about us and how good we are at producing the top players, so this is where they look first. If they don't like what they see then they look at other clubs.

And its only going to get worse, as the likes of Williams tell Canberra who the best up and coming players are. Rushton is a great prospect, so its worth a punt just to see if it works out. If it does then they will come for the next ones and Rushton will be advising them. You would think they will already be looking at Umyla.

The only way to stop it is to offer better longer contract, but you can't do that with the kids because of the cap.

Surely if Hearns gets involved in the game, its the first thing he'll bring up.

Caboosegg
Posts: 1860
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:51 pm

Re: Just a feeder club

Post by Caboosegg » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:46 pm

nathan_rugby wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:31 pm
Caboosegg wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:13 pm
shaunedwardsfanclub wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:08 pm


IFL and KR need to come up with the answer.
No they don't its a SL wide issue, the RFL cause this by a Cap, sadly the damage is irreversible and we have fallen that far behind there is very little we can do to catch up.
If there was no cap, how much more money would clubs actually have available to spend on players wages?

This point still relevant pre covid.
Thats why i put its to late stupid rules in the cap have meant we are that far behind we can't catch up.

For example if money earned on from players advertising products not only could players earn more money the also help the game reach a larger audience.

I know its not the be all and end all but it shows how much the game is willing to shoot itself in the foot to prevent some owner possible paying a player to advertise for his company to cheat the cap.
The Turkeys voted for Christmas.

A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices

George Orwell

shaunedwardsfanclub
Posts: 6338
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:08 pm

Re: Just a feeder club

Post by shaunedwardsfanclub » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:26 am

Caboosegg wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:13 pm
shaunedwardsfanclub wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:08 pm
nathan_rugby wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:41 am

How do we avoid it?
IFL and KR need to come up with the answer.
No they don't its a SL wide issue, the RFL cause this by a Cap, sadly the damage is irreversible and we have fallen that far behind there is very little we can do to catch up.
Of course they do. Are you seriously suggesting that they should just accept the situation and wait for SL to resolve it? What is the use of producing young players if you can't retain them, it is akin to burning money? One way they could deal with it is to release players that are past their best and invest in youth, another way is to scrap our youth system and buy players (like the majority of SL clubs). IFL and KR have the clubs best interest at heart and I am sure that they will have been upset and annoyed by this development, and hence they will be trying to avoid a repeat.
Winning is down to 99% perspiration and 1% inspiration - Shaun Edwards

Caboosegg
Posts: 1860
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:51 pm

Re: Just a feeder club

Post by Caboosegg » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:23 am

shaunedwardsfanclub wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:26 am
Caboosegg wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:13 pm
shaunedwardsfanclub wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:08 pm


IFL and KR need to come up with the answer.
No they don't its a SL wide issue, the RFL cause this by a Cap, sadly the damage is irreversible and we have fallen that far behind there is very little we can do to catch up.
Of course they do. Are you seriously suggesting that they should just accept the situation and wait for SL to resolve it? What is the use of producing young players if you can't retain them, it is akin to burning money? One way they could deal with it is to release players that are past their best and invest in youth, another way is to scrap our youth system and buy players (like the majority of SL clubs). IFL and KR have the clubs best interest at heart and I am sure that they will have been upset and annoyed by this development, and hence they will be trying to avoid a repeat.
So one of your solutions is to sack a player who might be having a bad season and you think that will create loyalty to the club.

Tomkins took over a season after he came back to show what he could do and was 100% past his best.. should we have ditched him?

Took richards a while to bed in should we have just ditched him?

We keep hold of player that may not be at there best because the pool of players in the UK is not good enough to just replace them, these youngsters might show potential but you cannot just put a team of them out in SL.

I'm not happy it happens but what can you do, Agents don't care about contracts just the money so will push the youngsters to go. Some people think that we should refuse to have anyone back if they go but why put yourself at that disadvantage, if Bateman came back to SL because of homesickness would you want him going anywhere else?
The Turkeys voted for Christmas.

A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices

George Orwell

shaunedwardsfanclub
Posts: 6338
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:08 pm

Re: Just a feeder club

Post by shaunedwardsfanclub » Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:55 pm

Caboosegg wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:23 am
shaunedwardsfanclub wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:26 am
Caboosegg wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:13 pm


No they don't its a SL wide issue, the RFL cause this by a Cap, sadly the damage is irreversible and we have fallen that far behind there is very little we can do to catch up.
Of course they do. Are you seriously suggesting that they should just accept the situation and wait for SL to resolve it? What is the use of producing young players if you can't retain them, it is akin to burning money? One way they could deal with it is to release players that are past their best and invest in youth, another way is to scrap our youth system and buy players (like the majority of SL clubs). IFL and KR have the clubs best interest at heart and I am sure that they will have been upset and annoyed by this development, and hence they will be trying to avoid a repeat.
So one of your solutions is to sack a player who might be having a bad season and you think that will create loyalty to the club.

Tomkins took over a season after he came back to show what he could do and was 100% past his best.. should we have ditched him?

Took richards a while to bed in should we have just ditched him?

We keep hold of player that may not be at there best because the pool of players in the UK is not good enough to just replace them, these youngsters might show potential but you cannot just put a team of them out in SL.

I'm not happy it happens but what can you do, Agents don't care about contracts just the money so will push the youngsters to go. Some people think that we should refuse to have anyone back if they go but why put yourself at that disadvantage, if Bateman came back to SL because of homesickness would you want him going anywhere else?
Where did I say sack a player? Where did I say put a team of youngsters in SL?

I just don't understand your logic of doing nowt and burying your head in the sand, that is a sure-way of losing talent!

I am not talking about the likes of Bateman, who I would have back in a heartbeat. The club had an option of keeping him but they would not pay what he was asking. I am talking about our juniors who are paid a pittance.

In our glory years we moved some great players on Hanley and Gregory to name two, why? Because they were past their best and we needed to find funds for players with promise.
Winning is down to 99% perspiration and 1% inspiration - Shaun Edwards

pedro
Posts: 4175
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 9:37 pm

Re: Just a feeder club

Post by pedro » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:44 pm

nathan_rugby wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:38 pm
It definitely does feel like we’ve been more hard done to with losing best players than other clubs. Even though Bradford then Leeds then Saints had big periods of dominance.

One part is victim of own success with youth squad, but there’s something else to it!
but Bradford were pulled apart, Hape, Paul, Leslie, Anderson, Peacock, Radford were all taken from them from other clubs/sports
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1857407490.png

Caboosegg
Posts: 1860
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:51 pm

Re: Just a feeder club

Post by Caboosegg » Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:32 pm

shaunedwardsfanclub wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:55 pm
Caboosegg wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:23 am
shaunedwardsfanclub wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:26 am


Of course they do. Are you seriously suggesting that they should just accept the situation and wait for SL to resolve it? What is the use of producing young players if you can't retain them, it is akin to burning money? One way they could deal with it is to release players that are past their best and invest in youth, another way is to scrap our youth system and buy players (like the majority of SL clubs). IFL and KR have the clubs best interest at heart and I am sure that they will have been upset and annoyed by this development, and hence they will be trying to avoid a repeat.
So one of your solutions is to sack a player who might be having a bad season and you think that will create loyalty to the club.

Tomkins took over a season after he came back to show what he could do and was 100% past his best.. should we have ditched him?

Took richards a while to bed in should we have just ditched him?

We keep hold of player that may not be at there best because the pool of players in the UK is not good enough to just replace them, these youngsters might show potential but you cannot just put a team of them out in SL.

I'm not happy it happens but what can you do, Agents don't care about contracts just the money so will push the youngsters to go. Some people think that we should refuse to have anyone back if they go but why put yourself at that disadvantage, if Bateman came back to SL because of homesickness would you want him going anywhere else?
Where did I say sack a player? Where did I say put a team of youngsters in SL?

I just don't understand your logic of doing nowt and burying your head in the sand, that is a sure-way of losing talent!

I am not talking about the likes of Bateman, who I would have back in a heartbeat. The club had an option of keeping him but they would not pay what he was asking. I am talking about our juniors who are paid a pittance.

In our glory years we moved some great players on Hanley and Gregory to name two, why? Because they were past their best and we needed to find funds for players with promise.
'One way they could deal with it is to release players that are past their best and invest in youth'

This is what i was referring to.

I'm not burying my head in the sand, but you have to accept we can do very little about it. Contracts are worth nothing anymore agent push players to break them at a click of a finger. You could pay more but where does this money come from to mention if they play a first team game the wage then goes against the cap (hence the dispensation a couple of years ago).

We had a chance to bring money into the sport but the RFL pushed Dr K out as quickly as possible.
The Turkeys voted for Christmas.

A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices

George Orwell

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