WiganWarriorsFans.com

Mike wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:50 pm
No conclusions, but I'm not sure this prevailing view that Wane coached us to winning everything in sight and never coaching us to a loss thing stacks up 100%. 3 GFs in 7 years plus a WCC is a great achievment by Wane, but his era was not dominated by multi-trophy seasons.

DaveO wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:09 pm

Mike wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:50 pm
No conclusions, but I'm not sure this prevailing view that Wane coached us to winning everything in sight and never coaching us to a loss thing stacks up 100%. 3 GFs in 7 years plus a WCC is a great achievment by Wane, but his era was not dominated by multi-trophy seasons.

Interesting stats Just goes to show those of us who thought Wane under achieved with the squad he had were right! I highlighted his lack of success in the cup when he was here and he some top players available who weren’t on their last legs when he first started like Lockers.

The fact Wane underachieved is of course no excuse for Lam.

moto748 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:14 pm What I keep going back to in my head is the many times in the Shaun Wane era that we saw an indifferent first half, only for things to perk up no end once Waney had had a word at the interval. Whereas nowadays, we look even less likely to score in the second half than the first!

You might call it 'Ricky Stuart Syndrome'.

Mike wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:50 pm People keep talking about how much more successful Wane was at winning trophies than Lam. I wondered if the records stack up in that way.

There are 3 trophies each season, GF, LL and CC, plus WCC if you've won the GF.

Looking online, this seems to be Lams record:
2019: 0/4
2020: 1/3 [LL]
2021: 0/1
Total: 1/8 = 12.5%

By my count Wane won
2012: 1/3 [LL]
2013: 2/3 [GF, CC]
2014: 0/4
2015: 0/3
2016: 1/3 [GF]
2017: 1/4 [WCC]
2018: 1/3 [GF]

Total: 6/23 = 26%

So Wane over his 7 seasons had a trophy success approx twice as good as Lam. However, were Lam to pickup a trophy this year, the gap would be much smaller (20% to 26%), and the current 3-year spell we're in is equal to the 2014-2016 spell we had under Wane with two trophies still to play for.

Its also interesting to remember that Wane had a very poor CC record, and which has continued under Lam, and Wane had as bad of a LL record as his CC record. Wane seemed to specialize in that charge for the GF at the end of the season and he had a 3/7 (42%) success on that trophy alone. If Lam is able to guide a similar late season run and picks up a GF win this season, his record will again be pretty close to Wane with 1/3 (33%).

No conclusions, but I'm not sure this prevailing view that Wane coached us to winning everything in sight and never coaching us to a loss thing stacks up 100%. 3 GFs in 7 years plus a WCC is a great achievment by Wane, but his era was not dominated by multi-trophy seasons.

jobo wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:42 pm

Mike wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:50 pm People keep talking about how much more successful Wane was at winning trophies than Lam. I wondered if the records stack up in that way.

There are 3 trophies each season, GF, LL and CC, plus WCC if you've won the GF.

Looking online, this seems to be Lams record:
2019: 0/4
2020: 1/3 [LL]
2021: 0/1
Total: 1/8 = 12.5%

By my count Wane won
2012: 1/3 [LL]
2013: 2/3 [GF, CC]
2014: 0/4
2015: 0/3
2016: 1/3 [GF]
2017: 1/4 [WCC]
2018: 1/3 [GF]

Total: 6/23 = 26%

So Wane over his 7 seasons had a trophy success approx twice as good as Lam. However, were Lam to pickup a trophy this year, the gap would be much smaller (20% to 26%), and the current 3-year spell we're in is equal to the 2014-2016 spell we had under Wane with two trophies still to play for.

Its also interesting to remember that Wane had a very poor CC record, and which has continued under Lam, and Wane had as bad of a LL record as his CC record. Wane seemed to specialize in that charge for the GF at the end of the season and he had a 3/7 (42%) success on that trophy alone. If Lam is able to guide a similar late season run and picks up a GF win this season, his record will again be pretty close to Wane with 1/3 (33%).

No conclusions, but I'm not sure this prevailing view that Wane coached us to winning everything in sight and never coaching us to a loss thing stacks up 100%. 3 GFs in 7 years plus a WCC is a great achievment by Wane, but his era was not dominated by multi-trophy seasons.

Lams first 2 seasons have given us 1 LL. Wanes first 2 seasons gave us LL,
CC and a GF.

They're really the only stats you can use as comparison.

If we go on to win the GF and LL this year, I reckon all the talk will be that the club should have signed Lammy in to a longer contract and IL and KR are rubbish for not having done so.

fozzieskem wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:26 pm
While I respect your opinion to me Lam has very little idea even now of what his best team is or how he wants them to play,I think 3 years is enough even if he won the GF

DaveO wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:56 pm

fozzieskem wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:26 pm
While I respect your opinion to me Lam has very little idea even now of what his best team is or how he wants them to play,I think 3 years is enough even if he won the GF

Noble was here four trophy-free seasons if you count 2006 wasn't he? At least he had the fact he saved the club form relegation in 2006 but it was too long to go without success and Lam doesn't even have half a relegation fighbackback season to fall back on.

I don't think Noble, Lam or even Wane would have lasted as long as they did/have under the previous regime. Of course Wigan did have a reputation of being a bit quick to fire off coaches but we have now gone the other way and keep them too long.

Trying to decide whether to replace a coach purely on stats isn't the way to do it in my opinion. As Mike said if Lam won the GF this year his stats look far better but as an owner you should be thinking about how likely he was to repeat that success not just giving him a new deal out of loyalty or because a win gives you the excuse not to bother trying find a better coach.

The latter is my biggest gripe with the current regime. It seems to have completely abandoned the idea of seeking to constantly improve whether that is by keeping hold of average players, letting them play on when they should retire or failing to recognise a new coach is required. Many of us blame Radlinski for poor player recruitment and squad management but if we can see he's not doing a good job so can IL so why doesn't he do something about it? Appointing a new coach has got to be IL's responsibility anyway so I suspect most of this stems from IL.

If Lam does go I think IL will find it hard to attract a top coach if he does things like he did with Edwards and refuse to let the coach bring in his own back room staff.