It is very clear our players put everything in to it today. They really did their best and we lost. We didnt just lose as we hung in there for most of the second half and never looked like scoring.
So why is this?
Simple our players are not good enough and it's that simple.
Look at Man City, they are good because they sign the very best players, that is why they are the best.
You can get the best coach in the world to coach let's say Swinton but they will never win the Grand final in Super League.
We are no different we have average players trying their very best but it is very clear they are not good enough.
So there sums up what's wrong with Wigan. Now how do we turn things around?
That's a very easy question to answer and harder to do.
We need new props second rowers, hooker centres and wingers to start with. Obviously we need other players but that's a very big start.
The other way to beat Snake Helens is to wait until their players get old and leave the club and hope they dont sign very good players in the future.
IT IS VERY CLEAR
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Wigan Watcher
- Posts: 1957
- Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:53 pm
- Contact:
Re: IT IS VERY CLEAR
Saints have had a settled coaching and mainly players for a while. Whilst we are now paying the price for the Edwards fiasco which let Lam in for 2 seasons. There was no plan it seemed when Edwards said he was not coming.
Structure seems in place now. But as Klopp found out it takes 2 to 3 years before you see results.
Structure seems in place now. But as Klopp found out it takes 2 to 3 years before you see results.
Re: IT IS VERY CLEAR
Ps. Man City are not playing under a cap system. And once again seems to be under investigation https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror ... 659881.amp
Re: IT IS VERY CLEAR
I think people are getting a bit hung up on matching Saints. They are the best side in the comp by some distance. Personally I'd be more than happy (in fact delighted) if we were the second-best team in the league, considering last season didn't even Leigh score more tries than us?
Re: IT IS VERY CLEAR
I don't want to sound like the happy clapper but I don't think we are as far off as you suggest.
Saints saints are better drilled than us but we also.had some players not performing well.
I am not doubting effort but today was the worst I've performance I've seen from Bibby and Bateman.
French was lost In defence on the wing with it being highlighted even more by it being vs Makinson
Now I'm not saying we would win but if you had Marshall on the wing Bibby on the other wing, Bateman playing well and hardaker playing you have a different game.
However the difference was summed up by Harvard for me, you'd never see as saints player do such a casual pass to a Wigan defender chasing them.
I am extremely unhappy with todays result however I saw enough to be confident we stand a chance in the semi's if we have the players in the right positions.
Saints saints are better drilled than us but we also.had some players not performing well.
I am not doubting effort but today was the worst I've performance I've seen from Bibby and Bateman.
French was lost In defence on the wing with it being highlighted even more by it being vs Makinson
Now I'm not saying we would win but if you had Marshall on the wing Bibby on the other wing, Bateman playing well and hardaker playing you have a different game.
However the difference was summed up by Harvard for me, you'd never see as saints player do such a casual pass to a Wigan defender chasing them.
I am extremely unhappy with todays result however I saw enough to be confident we stand a chance in the semi's if we have the players in the right positions.
These are two reasons not to trust people.
1. We don't know them.
2. We do know them.
1. We don't know them.
2. We do know them.
Re: IT IS VERY CLEAR
I don't see what the Edwards fiasco has to do with it. No one forced IL to employ Lam for longer than the original plan of one season.
As to Man City recruiting the best players, yes they do but that option is open to other wealthy clubs who also are not constrained by a salary cap.
In RL we operate under the same constraints as Saints so the cap is no excuse for assembling an inferior squad.
I agree about the best coaches not being able to work with poor players. Pep G at Man City could not make his tactics work with poor players.
That's the problem Peer has got. Too many players who simply aren't good enough and never will be. Saints would not be playing as they do with our squad and Peet is lumbered with too many players where there is no improvement possible.
It's not about some of our players under performing, its about the fact that is as good as it gets with too many of them.
As to Man City recruiting the best players, yes they do but that option is open to other wealthy clubs who also are not constrained by a salary cap.
In RL we operate under the same constraints as Saints so the cap is no excuse for assembling an inferior squad.
I agree about the best coaches not being able to work with poor players. Pep G at Man City could not make his tactics work with poor players.
That's the problem Peer has got. Too many players who simply aren't good enough and never will be. Saints would not be playing as they do with our squad and Peet is lumbered with too many players where there is no improvement possible.
It's not about some of our players under performing, its about the fact that is as good as it gets with too many of them.
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fozzieskem
- Posts: 6494
- Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 10:54 am
Re: IT IS VERY CLEAR
I agree with you far to many of the youngsters lads aren't good enough or too similar and that's what Peet has to sort now,the club need to back him and back him to the hilt it has been a improvement on the last 3 years of Lams nonsense but a rebuild that should have begun the second Wane said I'm off instead resulted in the Edwards/Lam fiasco saints have just pulled further away in those years talk about shooting yourself in the foot and that's down to LeneganDaveO wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 8:58 pm I don't see what the Edwards fiasco has to do with it. No one forced IL to employ Lam for longer than the original plan of one season.
As to Man City recruiting the best players, yes they do but that option is open to other wealthy clubs who also are not constrained by a salary cap.
In RL we operate under the same constraints as Saints so the cap is no excuse for assembling an inferior squad.
I agree about the best coaches not being able to work with poor players. Pep G at Man City could not make his tactics work with poor players.
That's the problem Peer has got. Too many players who simply aren't good enough and never will be. Saints would not be playing as they do with our squad and Peet is lumbered with too many players where there is no improvement possible.
It's not about some of our players under performing, its about the fact that is as good as it gets with too many of them.
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widdenoldboy
- Posts: 1823
- Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:25 pm
Re: IT IS VERY CLEAR
Our recruitment/retention seems off with players that are too small or too slow or both.
We are too accepting of "good" players in key positions when we need great players there to be a great team.
We are too accepting of "good" players in key positions when we need great players there to be a great team.
Re: IT IS VERY CLEAR
We’re 2 or 3 players maximum away from the performance levels of saints.
The real difference is the club mentality. Which fortunately for us looks set to improve massively in the next couple of years. As Ive said previously… 2023 has always been the year Wigan plan to go BIG.
Bringing players into the right environment to succeed, rather than bringing them in now as the whole club is going through a cultural reboot.
The real difference is the club mentality. Which fortunately for us looks set to improve massively in the next couple of years. As Ive said previously… 2023 has always been the year Wigan plan to go BIG.
Bringing players into the right environment to succeed, rather than bringing them in now as the whole club is going through a cultural reboot.
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Exiled Wiganer
- Posts: 2693
- Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:18 pm
Re: IT IS VERY CLEAR
We are kidding ourselves if we think we are close to them - they cruised through the last 30 minutes of that game.
Over the last 25 years, Saints have been better than in us in probably 17/18 of them, and for many of those years much better. It is has been 25 years since the end of our glory years. If we weren’t neighbours we wouldn’t even feature on their radar as a rival.
Why have they been so much better for so long?
1. Management? I would argue that McManus seems a smarter business man than IL. ACTION: there is nothing we can do about that. We still spend to the cap, so he is upholding that side of the bargain;
2. Recruitment/retention: theirs has clearly been better - they hardly ever seem to lose players they want to keep, and don’t re-sign players who under perform. ACTION: some of our recent NRL recruitment seems to be pretty good, but I fail to see how we can expect KR to know what he’s doing when he has exactly no experience in the role of CEO. Maybe Peet/Briers will work out a style of play, and have more of a say;
3. Coaching: we have had 2 coaches who are better (or consistently more successful) than their Saints’ equivalents in 25 years. I have been very impressed by Peet, and am genuinely not convinced by Woolf - I would also be surprised if Woolf renewed his contract, so they might choose badly. ACTION: stick with Peet, who has already fixed a lot;
4. Conditioning: Saints are fitter than us, and for many years have been fitter than us. Top level league requires repetition of difficult skills when fatigued. There is no magic to the Aussies always beating us in the last 10 minutes. They are fit enough to sustain their performance longer than GB. The only time we have obviously been fitter than Saints was under Maguire. ACTION: get fitter, and get better fitness coaching, spending whatever it takes.
Over the last 25 years, Saints have been better than in us in probably 17/18 of them, and for many of those years much better. It is has been 25 years since the end of our glory years. If we weren’t neighbours we wouldn’t even feature on their radar as a rival.
Why have they been so much better for so long?
1. Management? I would argue that McManus seems a smarter business man than IL. ACTION: there is nothing we can do about that. We still spend to the cap, so he is upholding that side of the bargain;
2. Recruitment/retention: theirs has clearly been better - they hardly ever seem to lose players they want to keep, and don’t re-sign players who under perform. ACTION: some of our recent NRL recruitment seems to be pretty good, but I fail to see how we can expect KR to know what he’s doing when he has exactly no experience in the role of CEO. Maybe Peet/Briers will work out a style of play, and have more of a say;
3. Coaching: we have had 2 coaches who are better (or consistently more successful) than their Saints’ equivalents in 25 years. I have been very impressed by Peet, and am genuinely not convinced by Woolf - I would also be surprised if Woolf renewed his contract, so they might choose badly. ACTION: stick with Peet, who has already fixed a lot;
4. Conditioning: Saints are fitter than us, and for many years have been fitter than us. Top level league requires repetition of difficult skills when fatigued. There is no magic to the Aussies always beating us in the last 10 minutes. They are fit enough to sustain their performance longer than GB. The only time we have obviously been fitter than Saints was under Maguire. ACTION: get fitter, and get better fitness coaching, spending whatever it takes.