POWELL!!

[Caboosegg]

I'm curious to what the coaches see in Powell over O'Neil I see lots of posts from people saying O'Neil is better and use 4 games where Powell was out to justify it (as if the team would lose if he plays)

If its so obvious to the fans why to the paid coaches miss it?

The other argument that Powell doesn't get picked for England a poor excuse as I'd we apply that logic ever hooker that doesn't make the England/NZ/Aus trying squad in the NRL must also be rubbish ?

To answer the first bit - as said before Powell is a senior player he is also well in with the upper management. I would say if i was playing devils advocate you might see Powell as the more "safe bet" O'Neill might be seen more of a work in progress and that it may be too big for him at this moment (i dont agree with this im just theorizing)

The bit in bold is the usual deflecting the actual point being made by introducing a point that isnt being made. Take England in isolation as NZ/AUs tend to have bigger talent pools - If your an English hooker and there are at least 5 hookers ahead of you for the national team as picked by a coach who knows everything about you then yes it means youre not in the top hookers in the game. Not everyone outside of that is "rubbish" but they are either not there yet or never going to be there - Powell is in the latter.

So yes if we were wakefield or hull kr or another low end team that would be acceptable but we are meant to be one of the best teams in the league yet we have a hooker (a key pivot position) who has never been near the international set up.

When was the last time St Helens or Leeds had a English hooker that wasnt in or around the england set up? and who have been the most successful teams since superleague started?

Has Brad Dwyer been in the England set up (genuine question) and i don't believe it is a poor excuse, Powell is not the style of hooker many people want but he obviously fits the play style the coaches want. When the only answer to Powell gets picked is because job for boys, it's hardly a factually backed opinion. It might need to change now with the evolving style of play Peet is developing but Powell has always left a big defensive hole when he hasn't played.

I might not agree with the point raised against Powell as:

1. Don't believe that this job for boys actually exists in the way claimed
2. He wouldn't have made it into the squad initially at the expense of micky Mac if he was so poor.
3. I trust tye coaching team we currently have.

However I still think that we should get a new half and move cust to hooker.

[Wigan_forever1985]

I'm curious to what the coaches see in Powell over O'Neil I see lots of posts from people saying O'Neil is better and use 4 games where Powell was out to justify it (as if the team would lose if he plays)

If its so obvious to the fans why to the paid coaches miss it?

The other argument that Powell doesn't get picked for England a poor excuse as I'd we apply that logic ever hooker that doesn't make the England/NZ/Aus trying squad in the NRL must also be rubbish ?

To answer the first bit - as said before Powell is a senior player he is also well in with the upper management. I would say if i was playing devils advocate you might see Powell as the more "safe bet" O'Neill might be seen more of a work in progress and that it may be too big for him at this moment (i dont agree with this im just theorizing)

The bit in bold is the usual deflecting the actual point being made by introducing a point that isnt being made. Take England in isolation as NZ/AUs tend to have bigger talent pools - If your an English hooker and there are at least 5 hookers ahead of you for the national team as picked by a coach who knows everything about you then yes it means youre not in the top hookers in the game. Not everyone outside of that is "rubbish" but they are either not there yet or never going to be there - Powell is in the latter.

So yes if we were wakefield or hull kr or another low end team that would be acceptable but we are meant to be one of the best teams in the league yet we have a hooker (a key pivot position) who has never been near the international set up.

When was the last time St Helens or Leeds had a English hooker that wasnt in or around the england set up? and who have been the most successful teams since superleague started?

Has Brad Dwyer been in the England set up (genuine question) and i don't believe it is a poor excuse, Powell is not the style of hooker many people want but he obviously fits the play style the coaches want. When the only answer to Powell gets picked is because job for boys, it's hardly a factually backed opinion. It might need to change now with the evolving style of play Peet is developing but Powell has always left a big defensive hole when he hasn't played.

I might not agree with the point raised against Powell as:

1. Don't believe that this job for boys actually exists in the way claimed
2. He wouldn't have made it into the squad initially at the expense of micky Mac if he was so poor.
3. I trust tye coaching team we currently have.

However I still think that we should get a new half and move cust to hooker.

I would argue Brad Dwyer isnt a top hooker either to be honest so i think that name proves the point - i suppose reverse the question when was the last time a top hooker was continually overlooked? there are examples of players being overlooked who were very very good players - Briers and Burrows come to mind, but its very rare a top player wouldnt get in the team

I think Powell suited Wanes type of play i wouldnt say he suits the Briers/Peet team which is more energetic and entertaining

Jobs for the boys does exist at Wigan just look at the coaching staff! im not having it everyone is there on merit.

Honestly if Sam Powell fell out with someone at Wigan and his contract was cancelled in your honest heart who comes in for him - i bet its not a team in the top 6.

[Charriots Offiah]

To answer the first bit - as said before Powell is a senior player he is also well in with the upper management. I would say if i was playing devils advocate you might see Powell as the more "safe bet" O'Neill might be seen more of a work in progress and that it may be too big for him at this moment (i dont agree with this im just theorizing)

The bit in bold is the usual deflecting the actual point being made by introducing a point that isnt being made. Take England in isolation as NZ/AUs tend to have bigger talent pools - If your an English hooker and there are at least 5 hookers ahead of you for the national team as picked by a coach who knows everything about you then yes it means youre not in the top hookers in the game. Not everyone outside of that is "rubbish" but they are either not there yet or never going to be there - Powell is in the latter.

So yes if we were wakefield or hull kr or another low end team that would be acceptable but we are meant to be one of the best teams in the league yet we have a hooker (a key pivot position) who has never been near the international set up.

When was the last time St Helens or Leeds had a English hooker that wasnt in or around the england set up? and who have been the most successful teams since superleague started?

Has Brad Dwyer been in the England set up (genuine question) and i don't believe it is a poor excuse, Powell is not the style of hooker many people want but he obviously fits the play style the coaches want. When the only answer to Powell gets picked is because job for boys, it's hardly a factually backed opinion. It might need to change now with the evolving style of play Peet is developing but Powell has always left a big defensive hole when he hasn't played.

I might not agree with the point raised against Powell as:

1. Don't believe that this job for boys actually exists in the way claimed
2. He wouldn't have made it into the squad initially at the expense of micky Mac if he was so poor.
3. I trust tye coaching team we currently have.

However I still think that we should get a new half and move cust to hooker.

I would argue Brad Dwyer isnt a top hooker either to be honest so i think that name proves the point - i suppose reverse the question when was the last time a top hooker was continually overlooked? there are examples of players being overlooked who were very very good players - Briers and Burrows come to mind, but its very rare a top player wouldnt get in the team

I think Powell suited Wanes type of play i wouldnt say he suits the Briers/Peet team which is more energetic and entertaining

Jobs for the boys does exist at Wigan just look at the coaching staff! im not having it everyone is there on merit.

Honestly if Sam Powell fell out with someone at Wigan and his contract was cancelled in your honest heart who comes in for him - i bet its not a team in the top 6.

Where do we get a top hooker and how do we fit them under our salary cap? You can rule out the NRL so who in SL should we target?

[Wigan_forever1985]

I do not have access to agents/ scout reports or any of the resources i would need to answer that question. Im not denying that we have a cap and it needs to be spent wisely but there are some easy changes i know we could make to fit someone under the cap around our marquee spend or balance of the squad

This is the other long standing argument in support of Powell and its nonsense, the idea that because we are on a capped sport we have to have average players in every position. Why is NRL out the question? Saints brought Lussick in to be Robys long term replacement, Leeds brought Parcell over who has stayed on?

Other teams are regularly signing NRL players the excuse we cant is proven wrong by clubs a lot less financially well off than us

Its an excuse one that Wigan are more than happy to facilitate rather than asking the real question of why we often miss out on some of these names

Look at it this way if you were building a squad from the ground up what's your first concern - your pivots - who touches the ball more than any other player on the pitch - your number 9. Thats why top teams sign top hookers. Im not saying you can have superstars in every position im not saying we can sign the best 9 in the comp what im saying is that we can do better than Powell, and if we can we should because thats what top teams do

[Charriots Offiah]

I do not have access to agents/ scout reports or any of the resources i would need to answer that question. Im not denying that we have a cap and it needs to be spent wisely but there are some easy changes i know we could make to fit someone under the cap around our marquee spend or balance of the squad

This is the other long standing argument in support of Powell and its nonsense, the idea that because we are on a capped sport we have to have average players in every position. Why is NRL out the question? Saints brought Lussick in to be Robys long term replacement, Leeds brought Parcell over who has stayed on?

Other teams are regularly signing NRL players the excuse we cant is proven wrong by clubs a lot less financially well off than us

Its an excuse one that Wigan are more than happy to facilitate rather than asking the real question of why we often miss out on some of these names

Look at it this way if you were building a squad from the ground up what's your first concern - your pivots - who touches the ball more than any other player on the pitch - your number 9. Thats why top teams sign top hookers. Im not saying you can have superstars in every position im not saying we can sign the best 9 in the comp what im saying is that we can do better than Powell, and if we can we should because thats what top teams do

You don’t need access to reports to make a suggestion regarding who we should look to recruit as a hooker.

What easy changes would you make in order to secure more cap space?

I am not arguing that we have to have average players in every position, clearly that doesn’t apply at the moment, it is simply a red herring.

Lussick is not a step up on what we already have, Parcell would have been but we chose to strengthen other positions with our overseas recruitment. Ok let’s assume we could get someone from Australia who would you go for and which player or players would you let go, alongside Powell to squeeze them under the salary cap?

[Charriots Offiah]

I do not have access to agents/ scout reports or any of the resources i would need to answer that question. Im not denying that we have a cap and it needs to be spent wisely but there are some easy changes i know we could make to fit someone under the cap around our marquee spend or balance of the squad

This is the other long standing argument in support of Powell and its nonsense, the idea that because we are on a capped sport we have to have average players in every position. Why is NRL out the question? Saints brought Lussick in to be Robys long term replacement, Leeds brought Parcell over who has stayed on?

Other teams are regularly signing NRL players the excuse we cant is proven wrong by clubs a lot less financially well off than us

Its an excuse one that Wigan are more than happy to facilitate rather than asking the real question of why we often miss out on some of these names

Look at it this way if you were building a squad from the ground up what's your first concern - your pivots - who touches the ball more than any other player on the pitch - your number 9. Thats why top teams sign top hookers. Im not saying you can have superstars in every position im not saying we can sign the best 9 in the comp what im saying is that we can do better than Powell, and if we can we should because thats what top teams do

I forgot to ask. Regarding pivots, what is your opinion on Cust? What was your view on Smith last season?

[Wigan_forever1985]

I do not have access to agents/ scout reports or any of the resources i would need to answer that question. Im not denying that we have a cap and it needs to be spent wisely but there are some easy changes i know we could make to fit someone under the cap around our marquee spend or balance of the squad

This is the other long standing argument in support of Powell and its nonsense, the idea that because we are on a capped sport we have to have average players in every position. Why is NRL out the question? Saints brought Lussick in to be Robys long term replacement, Leeds brought Parcell over who has stayed on?

Other teams are regularly signing NRL players the excuse we cant is proven wrong by clubs a lot less financially well off than us

Its an excuse one that Wigan are more than happy to facilitate rather than asking the real question of why we often miss out on some of these names

Look at it this way if you were building a squad from the ground up what's your first concern - your pivots - who touches the ball more than any other player on the pitch - your number 9. Thats why top teams sign top hookers. Im not saying you can have superstars in every position im not saying we can sign the best 9 in the comp what im saying is that we can do better than Powell, and if we can we should because thats what top teams do

I forgot to ask. Regarding pivots, what is your opinion on Cust? What was your view on Smith last season?

I think Cust is a really good player the obvious marker for me is you forget how young he is at 23 he’s only 1 year older than Harry smith

I think he’s on the border of hooker/half back - I think his build lends itself to hooker and I think that would be his best position but he’s a very capable at half

Smith has come on no end since last year I think last year he was hit and miss but hes settled down to a very consistent player this year and if he Carries on like this he will be someone to build a team around IMO

[Wigan_forever1985]

I do not have access to agents/ scout reports or any of the resources i would need to answer that question. Im not denying that we have a cap and it needs to be spent wisely but there are some easy changes i know we could make to fit someone under the cap around our marquee spend or balance of the squad

This is the other long standing argument in support of Powell and its nonsense, the idea that because we are on a capped sport we have to have average players in every position. Why is NRL out the question? Saints brought Lussick in to be Robys long term replacement, Leeds brought Parcell over who has stayed on?

Other teams are regularly signing NRL players the excuse we cant is proven wrong by clubs a lot less financially well off than us

Its an excuse one that Wigan are more than happy to facilitate rather than asking the real question of why we often miss out on some of these names

Look at it this way if you were building a squad from the ground up what's your first concern - your pivots - who touches the ball more than any other player on the pitch - your number 9. Thats why top teams sign top hookers. Im not saying you can have superstars in every position im not saying we can sign the best 9 in the comp what im saying is that we can do better than Powell, and if we can we should because thats what top teams do

You don’t need access to reports to make a suggestion regarding who we should look to recruit as a hooker.

What easy changes would you make in order to secure more cap space?

I am not arguing that we have to have average players in every position, clearly that doesn’t apply at the moment, it is simply a red herring.

Lussick is not a step up on what we already have, Parcell would have been but we chose to strengthen other positions with our overseas recruitment. Ok let’s assume we could get someone from Australia who would you go for and which player or players would you let go, alongside Powell to squeeze them under the salary cap?

Easy cap changes if it meant getting a better 9

Bateman - never a marquee anymore solid player but replaceable now

Field/French - as good as it is to have them both if it meant a top 9 I would they occupy the same sort of space

In terms of who I’d go for - I don’t watch enough nrl to suggest from there - if we could offer a decent chunk then clarke would be my choice from superleague I think parcell is an upgrade on Powell but not on Cust at 9

Leeming is a cracking player - I like ackers - Levi is a good player then you get into trade off - like wood for example and Dwyer offer more in attack but a lot less in defence

Probably are best option would be to move Cust to 9 and field into 6 French to 1 but that leaves Powell to the reserves

[Charriots Offiah]

I do not have access to agents/ scout reports or any of the resources i would need to answer that question. Im not denying that we have a cap and it needs to be spent wisely but there are some easy changes i know we could make to fit someone under the cap around our marquee spend or balance of the squad

This is the other long standing argument in support of Powell and its nonsense, the idea that because we are on a capped sport we have to have average players in every position. Why is NRL out the question? Saints brought Lussick in to be Robys long term replacement, Leeds brought Parcell over who has stayed on?

Other teams are regularly signing NRL players the excuse we cant is proven wrong by clubs a lot less financially well off than us

Its an excuse one that Wigan are more than happy to facilitate rather than asking the real question of why we often miss out on some of these names

Look at it this way if you were building a squad from the ground up what's your first concern - your pivots - who touches the ball more than any other player on the pitch - your number 9. Thats why top teams sign top hookers. Im not saying you can have superstars in every position im not saying we can sign the best 9 in the comp what im saying is that we can do better than Powell, and if we can we should because thats what top teams do

I forgot to ask. Regarding pivots, what is your opinion on Cust? What was your view on Smith last season?

I think Cust is a really good player the obvious marker for me is you forget how young he is at 23 he’s only 1 year older than Harry smith

I think he’s on the border of hooker/half back - I think his build lends itself to hooker and I think that would be his best position but he’s a very capable at half

Smith has come on no end since last year I think last year he was hit and miss but hes settled down to a very consistent player this year and if he Carries on like this he will be someone to build a team around IMO

Harry Smith was slagged off no end by many posters on this forum last year, I have no idea if you were one of them? Cust for me isn’t a half back, there are many better in SL he doesn’t have the pace to be a quality halfback nevertheless, he doesn’t attract the same criticism as others. Having said that both players have made excellent contributions to the team. It is all about the collective. Squad players, Powell and O’Neill amongst others play their part. Without them, there is no Challenge Cup on the shelf this season. Matty Peet, Shaun Wane and Adrian Lam see Powell as an integral part of our team, they can’t all be wrong!

[Charriots Offiah]

I do not have access to agents/ scout reports or any of the resources i would need to answer that question. Im not denying that we have a cap and it needs to be spent wisely but there are some easy changes i know we could make to fit someone under the cap around our marquee spend or balance of the squad

This is the other long standing argument in support of Powell and its nonsense, the idea that because we are on a capped sport we have to have average players in every position. Why is NRL out the question? Saints brought Lussick in to be Robys long term replacement, Leeds brought Parcell over who has stayed on?

Other teams are regularly signing NRL players the excuse we cant is proven wrong by clubs a lot less financially well off than us

Its an excuse one that Wigan are more than happy to facilitate rather than asking the real question of why we often miss out on some of these names

Look at it this way if you were building a squad from the ground up what's your first concern - your pivots - who touches the ball more than any other player on the pitch - your number 9. Thats why top teams sign top hookers. Im not saying you can have superstars in every position im not saying we can sign the best 9 in the comp what im saying is that we can do better than Powell, and if we can we should because thats what top teams do

You don’t need access to reports to make a suggestion regarding who we should look to recruit as a hooker.

What easy changes would you make in order to secure more cap space?

I am not arguing that we have to have average players in every position, clearly that doesn’t apply at the moment, it is simply a red herring.

Lussick is not a step up on what we already have, Parcell would have been but we chose to strengthen other positions with our overseas recruitment. Ok let’s assume we could get someone from Australia who would you go for and which player or players would you let go, alongside Powell to squeeze them under the salary cap?

Easy cap changes if it meant getting a better 9

Bateman - never a marquee anymore solid player but replaceable now

Field/French - as good as it is to have them both if it meant a top 9 I would they occupy the same sort of space

In terms of who I’d go for - I don’t watch enough nrl to suggest from there - if we could offer a decent chunk then clarke would be my choice from superleague I think parcell is an upgrade on Powell but not on Cust at 9

Leeming is a cracking player - I like ackers - Levi is a good player then you get into trade off - like wood for example and Dwyer offer more in attack but a lot less in defence

Probably are best option would be to move Cust to 9 and field into 6 French to 1 but that leaves Powell to the reserves

So you are basically saying we should let Bateman go to sign a top hooker? Who do we replace Bateman with?

I am sorry but I don’t understand your point about French and Field, perhaps you could explain.

Clark, I assume you mean Daryl from Wire? He is a spent force. His playing minutes are decreasing and his contribution is diminishing. Ackers I like, he has come on a bundle under Rowley who as I rate as a very good coach. By the way, he was a junior at Wigan. Leeming is ok but nothing special. Levi is being paid a salary far in excess of our hookers as is Parcell. Why did Parcell leave Leeds? You have made the case against Dwyer and Woods.

Field is the best fullback in the league by a long chalk, move him to halfback and you lose his attacking potency and sound defence. Bevan is not in the same league defensively as Field so you weaken the team. Cust could move to 9 but we then need to find a halfback, which gives us a further problem.

We have both O’Neill and Powell and I am happy with that, as are the coaches. We have won the Challenge Cup this year and finished second in the league so I think it is fair to say that all members of our squad have contributed admirably to our success. Let those two guys compete for a place in the team until the academy players prove their worth and we won’t go far wrong.