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the pieman wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:36 am

nathan_rugby wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 10:14 pm

the pieman wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 7:55 pm

unfortunately the marquee rule was brought in as the cap had been so poorly managed over a number of years. I didnt like much that Koukash added to the game as i think he was a lot of bravado and bluster, but he did push for the marquee (or 2nd one). At least the marquee you can pay over and above the cap but theres a chance that it is an isolating factor too when fans know that player x is marquee and paid £x thousands

What do you mean it’s an isolating factor?

I don’t think it’s common knowledge across most fans who is marquee and how much people are paid.

pretty sure you know what i mean

you only need to come on here to see what i mean with some examples off the top of my head below

George Williams
John Bateman
Sam Tomkins
poss George Burgess

all roundly slated on a weekly basis for being marquee player and not being worthy of the money.

i dont profess to knowing what any player earns or have any inside knowledge, but many posting on here have / claim to have knowledge or at best an educated guess

tell me that being a marquee doesnt come with at minimum expectations of the fans, and that soon fans can turn against them. Equally there's a chance of resentment within the changing rooms (i know that can happen without the marquee rule) if players know what others earn

Exactly this!

josie andrews wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 9:10 am

the pieman wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:36 am

nathan_rugby wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 10:14 pm

What do you mean it’s an isolating factor?

I don’t think it’s common knowledge across most fans who is marquee and how much people are paid.

pretty sure you know what i mean

you only need to come on here to see what i mean with some examples off the top of my head below

George Williams
John Bateman
Sam Tomkins
poss George Burgess

all roundly slated on a weekly basis for being marquee player and not being worthy of the money.

i dont profess to knowing what any player earns or have any inside knowledge, but many posting on here have / claim to have knowledge or at best an educated guess

tell me that being a marquee doesnt come with at minimum expectations of the fans, and that soon fans can turn against them. Equally there's a chance of resentment within the changing rooms (i know that can happen without the marquee rule) if players know what others earn

Exactly this!

+1

the pieman wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:36 am tell me that being a marquee doesnt come with at minimum expectations of the fans, and that soon fans can turn against them. Equally there's a chance of resentment within the changing rooms (i know that can happen without the marquee rule) if players know what others earn

So what? Why are either of those points relevant in professional sport?

RL is supposed to be a professional team sport and in professional team sport the star players earn more than the squad players. It’s always been so and will always be so. If that comes with expectations from the fans, that’s par for the course. If squad players expect to earn the same as the star players who are better than them and resent it when they don’t, they are in the wrong job.

What’s your alternative? Paying every player the same to keep the squad players happy? Forget having top class players at the club if you do that.

Fans will turn on any player not delivering regardless of how much he earns. Look at the comments on Mago. So I really don’t think the possibility the fans might turn on a marquee player is a reason not to have any.

If there is an issue with the marquee player rule it is in my opinion one that Wigan have. Not an issue with the rule itself in general. Wigan have mismanaged it by giving the status to players who didn’t deserve it in the first place (Williams) or players who were coming back from the NRL who wanted out or came back carrying an injury. Just another example of the lazy recruitment policy the club has had recently.

What Wigan have not done is used it to persuade a top class player who is at the top of their game and not with some injury issue hanging over them (Burgess) who has never been at the club to sign which is a different thing altogether.

It should be used to bring someone with the status of a Hanley or Offiah to the club. Can’t see it happening because while the marquee rule allows clubs to spend what they like I can’t see Wigan affording the costs associated with a player of that stature or even a notch down.

It would have to be a notch down on them two Dave your looking at the all time greats.
Some of what Dave says is true though I do think circumstances have maybe pushed us in that direction.
Williams was offered marque at Wire and that pushed us at the time to do the same, it was a little early for me but what was the option? If we had lost him to Wire many would have moaned. I do think that weight on him effected his game and I'm sure others on a lot less at the time but playing better maybe thought about trying to get the same money which would be natural and also causes issues. I don't think it's as black and white before you make a decision as it often seems after. Signings from outside are also a risk at times. I would still like a world star at the club but normally now it's a player with baggage or coming to the end. Bevan, Jai are two shining examples of when it goes right.
I think squad wise it's evolving it's definitely better balanced now and quality in first 17 but not as deep.
I also look at the youth set up and think the process has changed there.

I’d expect with the injury to Cooper and the comments from Trinity that Tanginoa isn’t available that this is now dead in the water, if it ever was in the water that is.

I don’t see us wanting to swap a prop for a secondrow with Cooper expected to be out for the time he is and beyond Mago having to rely on junior props.

KPP playing his way into form has made me feel a little easier about needing a second row for this year

Shorrocks won’t have to play 6 all year so he can slot in there too if needed.

Could do with Nsemba and Hill being good to increase the squad options.

The Pearl1 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 8:04 am KPP playing his way into form has made me feel a little easier about needing a second row for this year

Shorrocks won’t have to play 6 all year so he can slot in there too if needed.

Could do with Nsemba and Hill being good to increase the squad options.

I believe Hampshire is only a couple of weeks away from being able to play.

No straw damn us wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 11:17 am

The Pearl1 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 8:04 am KPP playing his way into form has made me feel a little easier about needing a second row for this year

Shorrocks won’t have to play 6 all year so he can slot in there too if needed.

Could do with Nsemba and Hill being good to increase the squad options.

I believe Hampshire is only a couple of weeks away from being able to play.

Good news. I may be in the minority but I believe that signing Hampshire is a shrewd bit of business.

Charriots Offiah wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 11:54 am

No straw damn us wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 11:17 am

The Pearl1 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 8:04 am KPP playing his way into form has made me feel a little easier about needing a second row for this year

Shorrocks won’t have to play 6 all year so he can slot in there too if needed.

Could do with Nsemba and Hill being good to increase the squad options.

I believe Hampshire is only a couple of weeks away from being able to play.

Good news. I may be in the minority but I believe that signing Hampshire is a shrewd bit of business.

think he will go great with Smith as a runner

Hoping it works out with Hampshire and he gets back ok from this injury. If it does it could be extremely handy, with him able to cover 1,6 and 7 and even the wing. It could allow us to use Custs quota spot in the pack (if he isn’t retained), which is clearly going to have to be a big focus for us going in to 2024.