Goalkicking Coach

[moto748]

I couldn't agree more about all the goal kicking doubts/ideas etc. One thing that does bother me is our inability to break teams through the middle and score near to the posts. We really seem unable to open a defence through the middle with bursts or good hands etc. I've noticed we only try these things when we are winning comfortably. I remember O'Neill putting Ellis under the sticks last season and thought we were learning. Unfortunately I've not seen much of this since

I said the other day on RLFans when someone said this highlighted our lack of forward grunt (although I don't disagree), that it's not just that: how many tries did George Williams score for us under the posts? We don't have halves that can do that now.

[Bob the Builder]

I've thought this too. Most goalkickers seem to have a very distinct routine and some small quirks or mannerisms when lining up kicks but I haven't really noticed anything with Smith. He's clearly capable of striking the ball well, but I wonder how much coaching he gets in goalkicking and how much is just him kicking from different parts of the field repeatedly.

It's always frustrated me that goalkicking seems to be treated as an afterthought or something to avoid. While it's true that we haven't really lost a game on missed goals this year there have been games where our lack of goals have put us in a position that's much harder to come back from.

In every other aspect of the game you want competition for places and responsibility, so why does goalkicking not seem competitive in the same way that penalty or free kick taking is in football? There should be 3 or 4 players practising regularly, getting coached and fighting to become first choice kicker. Maybe that is the case and it just all happens behind closed doors but it just seems like goalkicking is that job nobody wants and, judging by some of the attempts from backup goalkickers, nobody else seems to practise.

Exactly! And the reason I started this thread. But some lunes seem hell bent on taking it off on a tangent. Bottom line is Smith needs some professional coaching to realise his true goalkicking potential. End of!

I haven't commented on this thread but your point about Smith needing coaching, do you not think the coaching team know this? Do you think he doesn't already practise? Or do you think he's just taken up kicking during games and never put any work on the training park to get better?

Really? What do you think? If he's being coached, it ain't working. Yeah, I'm sure he does practice. And I'd like to think the coaching team should realise there is a problem here that can be sorted with quality professional coaching. And don't be silly by asking me "do I think he's just taken up kicking during games....". Are you happy with the status quo?

[Welski]

I think the general point being discussed (on a forum) is that our kickers don’t seem to ‘have it’ and haven’t for some time. Some debated it might be lack of innate ability or coaching or both. End of the day it’s a forum for chatting about stuff. Clearly we need something to change and in my opinion it’s the coaching (probably mental attitude side) as its clear that we have professionals who can kick accurately around the park. (As you would expect all professional rugby clubs to have)
If folks don’t want to chat about this stuff you don’t have to, ignore it read something else or go and enjoy the sunshine!

[EagleEyePie]

I haven't commented on this thread but your point about Smith needing coaching, do you not think the coaching team know this? Do you think he doesn't already practise? Or do you think he's just taken up kicking during games and never put any work on the training park to get better?

I don't think anyone questions whether he puts the work in, but practise and coaching aren't the same thing. I have no idea whether Peet, Lockers or Leuluai have much knowledge in coaching place kicking but I'd be surprised if it was high on their list of expertise. It's clearly not that easy to become a good goal kicker otherwise no team would ever struggle with it.

It's the old Vince Lombardi (I think) quote. "Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect"

Kicking goals from all over the field repeatedly after every training session will probably make you a better goalkicker, but it won't necessarily make you a good goalkicker. I think that's what is being questioned. If teams had kicking coaches readily available then there'd have been no reason for the club to consult with Charlie Hodgson a few years ago when Tomkins and Charnley ended up our place kicking options.

[Welski]

I haven't commented on this thread but your point about Smith needing coaching, do you not think the coaching team know this? Do you think he doesn't already practise? Or do you think he's just taken up kicking during games and never put any work on the training park to get better?

I don't think anyone questions whether he puts the work in, but practise and coaching aren't the same thing. I have no idea whether Peet, Lockers or Leuluai have much knowledge in coaching place kicking but I'd be surprised if it was high on their list of expertise. It's clearly not that easy to become a good goal kicker otherwise no team would ever struggle with it.

It's the old Vince Lombardi (I think) quote. "Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect"

Kicking goals from all over the field repeatedly after every training session will probably make you a better goalkicker, but it won't necessarily make you a good goalkicker. I think that's what is being questioned. If teams had kicking coaches readily available then there'd have been no reason for the club to consult with Charlie Hodgson a few years ago when Tomkins and Charnley ended up our place kicking options.

It’s like anything I guess you have bad good and exceptional- that goes for kicking coaches as well. It’s a weird part of the game- it’s arguably one of the toughest ‘team’ games where people literally put their health on the line for team mates then suddenly it’s all on one persons shoulders. A pressure kick is quite a thing to go through.

[Welski]

Goal kicking is simply about training the body and mind to repeat the same process identically each time. In much the same way that a golfer is taught how to reliably hit a shot. Obviously some people will have a better starting point but it boils down to finding a technique that works for the individual and repeating over and over in training until come match day pressure you almost go into a trance when taking a kick. You can see the practice processes in certain kickers, when I watch Harry prepare I don’t see a person confident in his technique. For me he doesn’t give the kick sufficient power when he strikes the ball it often falls short which is very weird in a goal kicker. Not all but most of the best kickers will bisect the posts near the top or higher when kicking conversions. (He has the power as evidenced by kicking out on the full from kick off last week) It’s completely different I know but I was a fly half in Union many years ago and was the goal kicker (pretty good one if I say so myself) I was taught early on to focus beyond the posts and imagine a large circle through which I would a slot the ball. It got me concentrating so hard on that spot that the gap between the posts was a massive target which I never worried about. With Harry I suspect given his low confidence right now those posts seem quite narrow! Also be interesting to analyse how many kicks he’s had from the touch line on his wrong side recently - if it’s been a lot then his confidence will fall as he starts to wrack up misses making the easier kicks much more pressurised. He has the natural ability, at the moment he needs someone to get inside his head and give him a mental routine he can trust.

Examples of processes here (from Union mainly sorry I know that might upset some people)

https://youtu.be/76jS6GBOWxA

Excellent postWelski. Practice until it becomes second nature Oh and btw don't hide your qualities under a bushel so to speak

Haha quality! I recall lining up a kick to win the Twickenham sevens for my team back in the late 80s. We scored a try at the death which left us 1 point down, time was up according to the ref, it was slightly left of the posts. I’d dug my hole in the ground with my heel (no kicking tees then) I started my routine but my shorts had no pockets so I dropped my gum shield to one side. Started my run up and the ball sailed between the posts! Turned round to retrieve my gum shield and found it half buried in a pile of the freshest dog poo I’d ever seen. I’m sure the ref saw as he played an extra couple of minutes - despite giving it the magic sponge it wasn’t pleasant

Ps this isn’t the more famous middlesex sevens of Wigan cross code fame!

[Bob the Builder]

Even Phil Clarke suggested we need a goalkicking coach to take the pressure of Harry Smith.

[DaveO]

Does Harry Smith and Wigan have a goalkicking coach. I'm not aware of one. I suspect its not just me who thinks one is needed asap. Frano Botica and Pat Richards were not natural goalkicker, but practice, practice and more practice made them excellent goalkickers. They both used to stay on the training pitch in all weathers after training had finished, whilst the rest of the squad went for a lovely round of golf. I also remember how Sam Tomkins improved following a Union kicking coach spending time with him. Harry Smith is not a bad kicker (yes his confidence is shot at the moment) but he needs some help. Even a short term coaching session would help. Matches are won on successful conversions. Come on Wigan get it sorted.

Botica was a natural goal kicker.

You're just being pedantic and missing my point about the need for a goalkicking coach. And just for the record Frank Botica was forced our of an All Blacks team as Grant Fox was deemed a much superior goalkicker. It was only when he switched to league did he improve his level of goalkicking. It was also his personal goal and objective to reach such perfection to ensure his place in the all conquering Wigan team

Spot on but the main point is natural kicker or not, he practiced constantly.

[Wintergreen]

"The more I practice, the luckier I get" as a certain golfer said.

Also if you read Johnny Wilkinson's story, he was always practising.

Not rocket science.

[archiekeith]

[quote=EagleEyePie post_id=530328 time=1686334754 user_id



It's the old Vince Lombardi (I think) quote. "Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect

This is a good maxim I first heard made by Dean Bell when interviewed by a reporter on his team when captain and he wasn't restricting it to kicking he was referring to all aspects of our game