Never really watched him closely, but after his terrible stint last week against Wire I kept a close eye on him today and I'm thinking maybe we should be looking at other options asap.
My main concerns are how little dynamism he gives us in attack - no offloads, very little in the way of post contact meters. Very passive and never seems to break tackles. While he doesn't seem to make too many mistakes, too often does he trudge the ball up and surrender with low meters made, no look for an offload and an easy tackle with no speed at the ptb meaning markers are ready for the next set.
In defence, again he is passive. He allows lots of post contact meters and tends to flail his hands around rather than getting his body behind the tackle. He also seems to allow offloads as seen against Wire for their first try.
In fairness, to memory - not according to stats which I haven't looked at, he doesn't seem to make many mistakes ball in hand, but he just completely lacks any sort of dynamism. With Havard and Cooper back (hopefully in Coopers case) next season and with Walters coming in, I wouldn't be surprised to see him struggle to get into a match day squad
Byrne
Re: Byrne
been saying it for weeks, needs binning off not dropping, that kind of defence is inexcusableBlackpool_Pie wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 8:54 pm Never really watched him closely, but after his terrible stint last week against Wire I kept a close eye on him today and I'm thinking maybe we should be looking at other options asap.
My main concerns are how little dynamism he gives us in attack - no offloads, very little in the way of post contact meters. Very passive and never seems to break tackles. While he doesn't seem to make too many mistakes, too often does he trudge the ball up and surrender with low meters made, no look for an offload and an easy tackle with no speed at the ptb meaning markers are ready for the next set.
In defence, again he is passive. He allows lots of post contact meters and tends to flail his hands around rather than getting his body behind the tackle. He also seems to allow offloads as seen against Wire for their first try.
In fairness, to memory - not according to stats which I haven't looked at, he doesn't seem to make many mistakes ball in hand, but he just completely lacks any sort of dynamism. With Havard and Cooper back (hopefully in Coopers case) next season and with Walters coming in, I wouldn't be surprised to see him struggle to get into a match day squad
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nathan_rugby
- Posts: 4183
- Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:12 pm
Re: Byrne
Simply not good enough and actually getting worse rather than better.
Wane called him out in the off season, was it last season ?, saying he needed to step up because there was a good player in there.
I’ve always thought he has immense potential, and of course he’s still very young, but he really just isn’t progressing.
His running and tackling looks half arsed.
The big issue with all of this is Radlinski coming out a while back saying Wigan will soon reap the rewards for persisting with so much youth at the same time…
Only Smithies and Havard are good enough out of that young crop that all came through together under Lam.
Wane called him out in the off season, was it last season ?, saying he needed to step up because there was a good player in there.
I’ve always thought he has immense potential, and of course he’s still very young, but he really just isn’t progressing.
His running and tackling looks half arsed.
The big issue with all of this is Radlinski coming out a while back saying Wigan will soon reap the rewards for persisting with so much youth at the same time…
Only Smithies and Havard are good enough out of that young crop that all came through together under Lam.
Bomhead - "Lockers to prop."
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Firestarter
- Posts: 5554
- Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:07 pm
Re: Byrne
I think Singo will be in for him on Saturday.Peet usually drops underperforming players tbf
IF YOU STRIKE ME DOWN I WILL BECOME MORE POWERFUL THAN YOU CAN POSSIBLY IMAGINE
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Blackpool_Pie
- Posts: 1403
- Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:44 pm
Re: Byrne
Im struggling to see why Hill didn't get any minutesFirestarter wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:40 pm I think Singo will be in for him on Saturday.Peet usually drops underperforming players tbf
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widdenoldboy
- Posts: 1828
- Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:25 pm
Re: Byrne
Me too, surely a 10 minute stint would have helped the other hard pressed pack when we had lost 2 from rotation and being a man down?Blackpool_Pie wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 10:03 pmIm struggling to see why Hill didn't get any minutesFirestarter wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:40 pm I think Singo will be in for him on Saturday.Peet usually drops underperforming players tbf
Re: Byrne
didnt this week, he dragged him off last week, twiceFirestarter wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:40 pm I think Singo will be in for him on Saturday.Peet usually drops underperforming players tbf
Re: Byrne
Peet has admitted in the past that he's not trusted the youngsters enough, and then he goes and does it again in a Cup semi-final! I'd have liked to have both Hill and Nsemba out there. They could hardly be worse than Byrne, and I don't think either of them would have been, on past form.
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EagleEyePie
- Posts: 443
- Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:42 pm
Re: Byrne
It's so rare for props to hit their peak in their early or even mid 20's. Byrne reminds me a bit of Gil Dudson when he was at the club. Plenty of promise and some good performances early on in his career but mostly just a lot of waiting around for him to reach his potential. Which Dudson did, at the age of around 28/29, while playing for a completely different team.
It feels like the club consider Byrne as a first choice prop but that just highlights how much of a massive problem this position has been for the club. He's never been consistent enough to be a regular starter but he's so often been a regular starter and if we're honest that's mostly because we've either had players injured or because all our other props have been much worse. He hasn't really kicked on much in the last few years and the club must be open to the prospect of him not actually improving much for a few years.
I think there's been an attitude at times where our planning ahead for future seasons is based on the assumption that young forwards will continue to improve and if someone is in the first team at 20 they'll be a top player by 23. It so very rarely works like that. The best teams have top props at their peak, ages 27 and above and they have quite a few of those players. What worries me next year is our only recruits at prop are two more young players who could become top players where the assumption will be they'll continue to improve along with other young props like Havard and Byrne and Hill.
There's a reason that Grand Final winning teams generally have several middles above the age of 30 and sometimes in their mid-30's. Experience is a big thing when it comes to props. Players like Havard are a rarity. There will be others that come to mind, but only because they are very good players. The majority have a much tougher progression.
So back to the point, Byrne is probably where you'd expect him to be at this age if you look at how young props usually progress. It's currently not great. We can't go into next season assuming it will be any better just because he's one year older. It often takes a lot longer than that.
Having said that, if you do have a young prop that is currently playing well, you should give them game time. Harvie Hill has been really good when he's been given a chance. He's had a bit of a rest and not been overworked. I thought the decision not to play him today was madness. We're a man down and the forwards are bound to be worked harder than usual. Byrne didn't perform particularly well and Mago quickly became less effective the longer he was on. Why not play someone who has been making a positive impact off the bench in most of his previous games?
It feels like the club consider Byrne as a first choice prop but that just highlights how much of a massive problem this position has been for the club. He's never been consistent enough to be a regular starter but he's so often been a regular starter and if we're honest that's mostly because we've either had players injured or because all our other props have been much worse. He hasn't really kicked on much in the last few years and the club must be open to the prospect of him not actually improving much for a few years.
I think there's been an attitude at times where our planning ahead for future seasons is based on the assumption that young forwards will continue to improve and if someone is in the first team at 20 they'll be a top player by 23. It so very rarely works like that. The best teams have top props at their peak, ages 27 and above and they have quite a few of those players. What worries me next year is our only recruits at prop are two more young players who could become top players where the assumption will be they'll continue to improve along with other young props like Havard and Byrne and Hill.
There's a reason that Grand Final winning teams generally have several middles above the age of 30 and sometimes in their mid-30's. Experience is a big thing when it comes to props. Players like Havard are a rarity. There will be others that come to mind, but only because they are very good players. The majority have a much tougher progression.
So back to the point, Byrne is probably where you'd expect him to be at this age if you look at how young props usually progress. It's currently not great. We can't go into next season assuming it will be any better just because he's one year older. It often takes a lot longer than that.
Having said that, if you do have a young prop that is currently playing well, you should give them game time. Harvie Hill has been really good when he's been given a chance. He's had a bit of a rest and not been overworked. I thought the decision not to play him today was madness. We're a man down and the forwards are bound to be worked harder than usual. Byrne didn't perform particularly well and Mago quickly became less effective the longer he was on. Why not play someone who has been making a positive impact off the bench in most of his previous games?